Conquer the elusive specter of fear with Denise Russo and Sam Powell, as they offer you a roadmap to happiness inspired by Mo Gawdat's profound insights. Prepare to challenge the fears that lurk in the shadows of uncertainty, whether they're keeping you tethered to a dead-end job or causing you to shy away from new experiences. Our latest podcast episode strips away the disguise fear wears, revealing its many faces—be it the terror of public speaking or the superstition that happiness is but a harbinger of doom.
As we candidly share our own brushes with anxiety—from the dread of plummeting off a cliff to the unease of career instability—we also illuminate the steps to dismantle these fears. Discover how embracing the worst-case scenarios with logic rather than dread can transform your life, opening doors to optimism and courage. Uncover the emotional intricacies fear weaves through our daily lives, and learn how to break free from its grip, opening yourself to a life unburdened by the weight of irrational worries.
Venture with us as we explore the philosophy of 'learning to die before you die,' unlocking the secret to life without the chains of fear. Anticipate our engaging discourse on the seven blind spots that cloud our vision, as we pursue the ultimate truths hidden within Gawdat's "Solve for Happy." Don't just listen—join the journey toward personal fulfillment and share your thoughts, as we carve a path through the grand illusions that stand between us and true happiness.
Connect with us on our LinkedIn page School of Thoughts . We also value your reviews, subscribing, and sharing our podcast "What's On Your Bookshelf?" on Apple and Spotify.
Conquer the elusive specter of fear with Denise Russo and Sam Powell, as they offer you a roadmap to happiness inspired by Mo Gawdat's profound insights. Prepare to challenge the fears that lurk in the shadows of uncertainty, whether they're keeping you tethered to a dead-end job or causing you to shy away from new experiences. Our latest podcast episode strips away the disguise fear wears, revealing its many faces—be it the terror of public speaking or the superstition that happiness is but a harbinger of doom.
As we candidly share our own brushes with anxiety—from the dread of plummeting off a cliff to the unease of career instability—we also illuminate the steps to dismantle these fears. Discover how embracing the worst-case scenarios with logic rather than dread can transform your life, opening doors to optimism and courage. Uncover the emotional intricacies fear weaves through our daily lives, and learn how to break free from its grip, opening yourself to a life unburdened by the weight of irrational worries.
Venture with us as we explore the philosophy of 'learning to die before you die,' unlocking the secret to life without the chains of fear. Anticipate our engaging discourse on the seven blind spots that cloud our vision, as we pursue the ultimate truths hidden within Gawdat's "Solve for Happy." Don't just listen—join the journey toward personal fulfillment and share your thoughts, as we carve a path through the grand illusions that stand between us and true happiness.
Connect with us on our LinkedIn page School of Thoughts . We also value your reviews, subscribing, and sharing our podcast "What's On Your Bookshelf?" on Apple and Spotify.
Welcome to what's on your Bookshelf, with your hosts Denise Russo and Samantha Powell.
Speaker 2:
Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of what's on your Bookshelf. This is a life and leadership podcast where we are living out loud the pages of the books that are on our shelves and sharing that information with all of you the pages of the books that are on our shelves and sharing that information with all of you. Right now, we are going through a book called Solve for Happy Engineer your Path to Joy by Mo Gaudet. He is the former chief business officer from Google. My name is Denise Russo. I'm here once again with my friend, Sam Powell, and we are ending the first part of this book. But, Sam, as always, it's so great to be here with you today. I'm excited.
Speaker 1:
I can't believe we're on the last of the Grand Illusions. I feel like we're busting a whole bunch of thoughts and things that we've been going through these last couple of weeks, so I'm excited. Well, I don't know if I'm excited to talk about this one, because this is the illusion of fear, but this was an inch. This was a really interesting chapter.
Speaker 2:
I don't like this one because I definitely have some different kinds of fears. In fact, he starts the chapter by saying I've never met anyone who's not afraid of something. And as soon as I saw this, the title of the chapter is called might as well jump, and all I could think of was somebody jumping out of a plane and how. I will never, ever want to do that, no matter if it means I will overcome any sort of fears. I have no desire to jump out of airplanes, but yet there's so many people that love that, like jumping off of cliffs, jumping out of a plane. I do not desire to do that. How about you?
Speaker 1:
No, no, thanks that my mom says that's on her bucket list. But I'm like, yeah, I'll take pictures from the ground. I will never, ever be on my, on my bucket list. And it's funny, it always makes me think of, like I think it was a comedian I listened to years ago who was like you know, I don't have a fear of heights, I have a fear of falling.
Speaker 1:
And that's really what this chapter, you know, gets into is what is fear? He calls fear the granddaddy of all illusions, it's the one that rules them all. Right, this is the last of the six. And he says that this is the big, this is the big poppy, this is the big one here that really, really sits across, you know, across everything. And so in this chapter he gives us six steps to go through, to work through our fears, which I this is really interesting I mean, I, you know, as a coach, I deal, you know, you and I deal with fears all the time. Right, there's that's always part of the conversation with people, because you know, we talk about, you know, taking action and moving forward, but it's what's holding you back, and there's always a fear underneath that. Somewhere it's like oh, I'm just afraid of this or that, or you know what's going to happen if I take the step, and so you know. Fear is something that you know is common, is prevalent but is, according to Mo here, an illusion.
Speaker 2:
It's an illusion, so this chapter is about defining your fears and how your brain processes it. So, going back to this idea of might as well jump, isn't it funny to think we don't want to jump out of an airplane your mom does, but how safe we feel when we're in an airplane. Now, you've been in an airplane across a really far distance many times, so isn't it interesting to think that you were able to go into the little tin bucket up into the sky across a major ocean many times and not have that same fear? This talks about that there's nothing positive about being afraid, and that this chapter explores how to be brave and step outside of your fears, and so we'll explore a little bit the worst case and best case scenarios and how you use logic. So I think, once again, what I did like about this chapter was that it wasn't about the emotion of fear. It's about the logic of how to get around the things that you're potentially afraid of, and why we hold on to things for fear of losing something that we don't even want to begin with.
Speaker 2:
Like, I can't tell you, sam, how many people I coach that don't like their jobs and they don't like the people that lead them or, I would say, manage them, because they're not actually good leaders in some cases.
Speaker 2:
And so he goes on to talk about what, if there was nothing to fear, would you stay at that job or would you stay in the relationship you're in that job? Or would you stay in the relationship you're in? Because if you don't like where you are and in the case he was talking about it being a relationship, he said then it's not real love, it's the fear of losing what you have and the fear of being alone. Or, in terms of this job situation, how many people get stuck in their jobs because they are afraid they won't have a paycheck or they won't find another job or they won't be able to be successful in life, and so they stay stuck. They stay stuck and they stay unhappy, which our entire series in 2024 is about the quest for happiness. So fear holds you back from happiness, because you're perhaps more comfortable staying somewhere that you feel like you have. What last week was about control.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, absolutely yeah, and we say, I mean, we see it all the time, right, we all experience it is that we say we stay stuck in a spot that doesn't serve us or, worse, hurts us because of some fears that are moving us forward. I thought it was really interesting, right. He gets into you know, like really understanding what fear is, and he comes around eventually like it's a little out of order, but he really comes around to this concept of like underneath fear is some sort of like pain that's there and I thought that was super interesting. And when I think about you know fears and things you know that I've experienced or that I have or you know have had in the past. And if I dig down enough, right, if I step into my coach, my coach's hat, and ask my question, all the wise, right, I do like five, why analysis? Like well, why are you afraid of this, why are you afraid of this, why are you afraid of this, why are you afraid of this right?
Speaker 1:
The root of all of that is pain and I say often all the time that I guess often all the time is a little redundant, but I say often that we're either either doing one of two things. We're either moving towards pleasure or away from pain. Right, and I think that that comes from the atomic habits book we read, right, like that thought process of, like, those are the only things we're ever doing, and fear falls onto the pain side of it. We are trying to avoid pain and therefore we put up this, you know, wall of fear. Right, like you know, like I, you know I'm, do you not want to be bit by a spider Because that would be painful? Right, like I've.
Speaker 1:
I've seen the images on the internet of spider bites. Therefore, spiders, I'm afraid of spiders. Right, it's a, it's actually a blocker for pain, right, it's. It's you protecting your like a fear? Is you protecting yourself from something? Right, like, I'm not afraid of heights, heights are fine, do you get great views, but I'm definitely afraid of falling and the pain associated with that. Right, like that's. You know, that's really what it comes down to and I, like that to me, was a big I. Just that lives rent free in my head since I read that in this book, because it, like it was a light bulb click, a connection to you know other things that we have read and talked about for me, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:
I think it's interesting the way you just described it, because, statistically speaking, how many times have you fallen and had pain? Probably few fewer times than you've had some height experience that you really enjoyed. And so what I really loved in this chapter was that you really enjoyed. And so what I really loved in this chapter was he defines fear in ways that were easier for me to understand. So he said there are these words anxiety, frustration, disgust, grief, embarrassment, envy and pessimism. Those were the words that he used to describe fear. And so he said anxiety is a direct derivative of the fears we let linger. So I think back to the fear that I have when our jobs were eliminated was probably anxiety of something I let linger. Because he says in here that anxiety is a direct derivative of fears we let linger. And the first thing I thought was oh my gosh, we're not going to get paid anymore. What if I don't have any money? And then I had to instantly think about the book I've been writing for the last couple of years, called what If, which is about the power of the punctuation that we put in our lives. Well, what if I don't? Okay, well then, what am I going to do about it.
Speaker 2:
It goes back to what we talked about last week. What are the actions and our attitudes around the things that we're were coming into my mental state that I had to grab a hold of? In fact, grief is one of the words that he uses, which is driven by the fear of how life will be after loss. We often talk with clients today around the stages of grief that someone goes through when they lose their job. In fact, I had a coaching client this morning, before our call together today, and he was describing these actual experiences of being disgusted, being embarrassed, being envious and being pessimistic All those words that Mo uses here. He had those feelings about losing his job, where he formerly worked, and yet we ended the call talking about so many wonderful, marvelous things that he was also experiencing. And so isn't it interesting that this illusion that we have of fear truly could be an illusion if you get outside of your own head and focus on what's possible?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I really I had to read that paragraph where he talks about that fear isn't always so obvious. It comes in many different forms. That's when he talks about anxiety and disgust and you know all these other things. I really had to sit with that and I still not sure if I really like.
Speaker 1:
I think I agree with his point that underlying those emotions is often a fear, right, but I don't know, like you know and I think it's you know, some of it is how he writes. He writes very definitively, right, like this is what this is, like this is the you know, this is the thing. And I'm like I just don't know that I agree with some of his like assertions on some of this stuff. But but I get his point that, like you know, if you really think about what some of like that fear, you know you might not think of it as a fear consciously, but if you dig deep and again, like you know, I've seen this with with coaching clients and I've seen this in myself sitting down with therapists right, it's like, well, I feel this and it's like, well, why do you feel that? And when you really dig down, it's like, well, there's a fear there and that fear there is, like again related to some kind of pain you're trying to avoid. So, like I thought that that was a super interesting thing.
Speaker 1:
I really I still sit and think about it, about you know some of what he, what he says in this in this section, but I that was an interesting concept for me that, like, sometimes fear doesn't look or feel like fear. Sometimes fear looks like disgust, sometimes it looks like, you know, anxiety and things like that. And I I think about that when I think about, um, uh, like like judgment, like right, when you're judging someone else, when you're looking at them and going, I can't believe you know they're wearing that or they're doing that or whatever. And if you really sit down and examine your judgment of someone else, yes, and there's probably, there's probably some kind of insecurity that you've got related to that.
Speaker 1:
That's probably related, you know, like, and his point is it's probably related to a fear at the end of the day that you have and like. That is a fascinating concept that I don't know like drives me to, I think, more empathy for other people, right, like, when somebody is judging someone, I'm like, girl, why are you judging them? Like, what is why? Like, calm down, I think it's going to be fine. But if you really think about it, it's like, oh, I think that person's, I think we hit one of their you know their fears at the end of the day, right, we hit something you know that they're trying to avoid, and they're trying to avoid that by placing that judgment out on someone else, by, you know, doing that.
Speaker 1:
My grandmother told me the other day she was like I don't, she goes, I don't want to have opinions. She's like I just I don't want to have opinions, right and like. And it was in the same thought process of like I don't want to be judging other people, right, I don't want to be thinking about that, I'm happier without that, and it's, I think you're happier without those opinions and that judgment and that you know thinking about other people because you're not focused on what fear of your own, what pain of your own is driving you know this other thing, and I don't.
Speaker 1:
I just think it's fascinating, like I think about this a lot because it's it's very complex to me and I don't know there's a lot to unwind there.
Speaker 2:
There's a lot there. He calls it conditioned responses. So what are the things in our subconscious mind that are holding us back from certain things? And so he talks about in the chapter. So I really do encourage you, by the way, buy a copy of this book. It will help you go into it deeper for yourself.
Speaker 2:
Remember, we started this podcast to take books off of our shelves and live them out loud by what we were reading. We hope that the stories we're sharing with you are helping you, because these are real life stories that we're living out loud from the pages we've been reading. But it's even better if you can do it for yourself. And so in this chapter, he talks about naming your fear, and he even specifically says some people fear not having the resources to buy what they need. They get hooked into an endless attempt to accumulate as much as they can, but they never feel secure, regardless of how much wealth they accumulate. And I highlighted that because In 2009, my house was destroyed by a terrible flood.
Speaker 2:
In fact, the entire community 2,800 homes were destroyed in this flood, and we went from having everything a six-bedroom house to nothing six dumpsters full of nothing now, which is two houses since and when we first moved in, of course the house was empty and it was beautiful because there was nothing, it was clear, it was clean, it was empty.
Speaker 2:
My dad, literally, was sitting on a like a folding, like a soccer chair or you know, one of these folding chairs you can take to the beach or whatever.
Speaker 2:
In my living room, before we moved into this house, and I remember sitting next to him one day when we were trying to decide what was going to go where, thinking, man, I love that this house has nothing in it. Now you, sam, know me for the last couple years to know that my house is over consumed with way too much stuff now, and I often think to myself what is the subconscious, hidden fear of loss of things? Because I'm not a I'm not a brand conscious person, I'm not someone that feels like I always have to have something, but yet I have subconsciously made sure that I have way more than an abundance of things. I went through this exercise, you know, recently where I was getting rid of some clothes and I must have had six long sleeve black undershirts. I live in Florida. I probably don't even need one long sleeve black undershirt. It's like one of these things you buy to put underneath like a ski outfit 's what I'm talking about why do I have weather in florida?
Speaker 2:
not a lot of skiing weather in florida, and so I had to get to the the fact in this chapter, where my brain was playing this fear game with me, that somehow, if I see something on sale especially if it's on sale because there's the fear of, well, if I don't get it now, it's never going to be this price again, right. And then, when I was putting the things in the bag, sam, oh my god, I came and tell you how many times did I put something in the giveaway bag and then I pulled it back out again and I and I looked at it again and then I put it back in again and then I took it back out again. Now, I promise you, I don't have all six black shirts back in my room. I probably still have more than two. But I have to get past that, because there's this fear that we have now. Your fear may not be the fear of loss of things, like in my case. It was dramatic, I lost everything. So having things somehow maybe gives me a sense of security. But I will tell you, I almost feel like I wish I had nothing again, which I should watch what I wish for, because that's what I wish the first time and then I lost it all.
Speaker 2:
But you might have a fear of heights, like we talked about today. You might have a fear of claustrophobia. Like Olivia, she's been flying since she was a baby. I used to work for AirTrain Airways and then coin works for Delta, so the kids have never not known a world on an airplane. But in her later years she's 22 now, so I think when she got to be about 20, suddenly she was afraid. 20 years she's been flying and I mean like extensive amounts of flying Suddenly she was afraid, she had claustrophobia. She couldn't sit still or be in an enclosed space and it was like this newfound fear that had never once existed, that now had somehow been introduced into her subconscious mind. Some people are afraid of the dark. I don't think I'm per se afraid of the dark but I, for example, don't like to sleep in my room with the door closed. I leave the door open and some people might be afraid to leave the door open and have to have it closed.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because he, you know, he talks about all these different fears that we have, but then he goes in to talk about this, what he calls his faith model of like fears that we create, and the visualization is like circles inside of circles, right. And so the example he gives is like your fear that you say you have is I have a fear of public speaking. But if I ask myself, well, why do I have a fear of public speaking? It's I have a fear of missing expectations. And why do you have a fear of missing expectations? Because I have a fear of ridicule. Why do you have a fear of ridicule? Because I have a fear of rejection. And so what he says is that we create these layered fears to protect us from the pain of what it feels like to be rejected, right, like from the pain of this core fear.
Speaker 1:
But he says that in creating all of this, you know there is no safety model is kind of what he gets around to is that you create this bubble of like, oh, I'm afraid of speaking in public, when in reality you're just afraid of, you know, rejection at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:
Right, you're afraid of looking dumb because that's painful to you, because maybe that was an experience you had when you were in junior high or something right, like there's this core fear to that and the more fears you layer around this right, if you let this get out of control, instead of dealing with it, instead of facing the reality, instead of taking the leap to face it and to deal with it, then you're creating a really rickety structure around this right when it's a whole bunch of fears like this isn't really protecting you at the end of the day, and he uses like a Jenga puzzle, right, like you're pulling something out, you're putting on top and then again you have this really rickety structure that's not going to help you. And the more you try to create this like safe model around yourself, the harder he says. The more you try to create this like safe model around yourself, the harder he says. The harder you try, the more you will fail.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's interesting what you're describing, because I don't mind public speaking at all. I've always been comfortable with it, even though I'm an introverted person. And yet I know people who are terrified of it, for, for real, like I, it's almost hard to understand what is scary to them because there's nothing about public. I might get like adrenaline before I go do a speech, for example, but I don't think I've ever been afraid to speak in front of a group. Now I do think, though, that what he made a point was very practical. Practical.
Speaker 2:
He said do you truly believe in life with all its might, with all its endless resources and infinite connections that it's designing its next move? Just to gut you Like, do you believe life is out to get you Really Seriously? And so then he says do you truly believe the orbiting of the planet and the cycles of the unfolding lives of more than 7 billion people are just here to scare you? I mean, when he puts it that way, it almost seems silly to be afraid of things, right? And yet for me I don't know for you, sam, but for me, sometimes, when life is good, like if life is really going good for me I start to have a fear of thinking it's a trick and that something bad probably has to be coming, because life cannot just be this good, that there's a trick, something's about to happen and that bad fear or lack of trusting or maybe not believing that good can be good is certainly some sort of subconscious, weird fear that I have and I know I need to get over it, which is what I took away and I wrote in the book for this week, which was maybe life really can be really good and that when it is really good to just sit in that really goodness and not think about that tomorrow might not be good.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that's a common fear that people have. Right, it's like, oh, something's got to give because things have been going my way, and it's like things can just go your way, like that's allowed, that is an option, right? There's nobody out to get you, there's no conspiring deity trying to figure out how to take you out.
Speaker 1:
Right, like none of that's happening. You know, like things can just be, things can be good. And I love what he where he goes into is he says there are no positive aspects to fear goes into is he says there are no positive aspects to fear. It's your actions and not your fears that keep you safe. Right, we've come from this place of we're trying to protect ourselves from pain by creating this like safety net of fear, essentially like, right, if I just avoid the thing I'm afraid of, then I never. I, you know, I lower my chance for pain.
Speaker 1:
But what he, what he's telling you, is that doesn't work. That structure will always fail and will always come crashing down, because you will get faced with those things at some point. Right, a spider is going to come into your house. It will happen. Right, like you're gonna have to get a shot at the doctor. Like those things are happening. The only thing that you can really do is take action. Right, and that's where he leads us to in this chapter is that you have to take the leap, you have to be committed. Right, he says take the vow that I'm going to face my fear, but what you have to get to is facing it. The only way to get through a fear, to get through this illusion of fear that it's going to keep you safe, it's going to keep you protected, is that you have to just do it right. If you are afraid of public speaking, you got to speak publicly. That's it. That's the only way past it.
Speaker 2:
And then he says though, what's the worst that can happen? All right, think about truly what is the worst that could happen. And then what's the chances really of that really happening? So so what if that thing happens Like? So what if you go to a speech and the people don't like it? Who cares? You probably didn't know the people anyway. So so what is? He calls the whole chapter. So what? Then he says and really, how likely is it that you're going to be rejected? How likely is it? Is there anything you can do right now to prevent that from happening? So, what can you do to take action and have a better attitude, which is what we talked about before, to go into that scenario? And then, if it does happen, can you recover from it? And the chances are you probably can.
Speaker 1:
Yep, yeah. And then he goes on to say you know what happens if you do nothing. Right, like what happens if that you don't take any action, you don't do it right, what's the price you would pay if you take no action out of the space that you're in? And then you know, kind of finally wrapping up with what's the best case scenario, right, like, let's think through the worst case, let's think what could all happen, what happens if you don't do anything? And then what happens if it works out? Right. Reminds me of the quote that's like you know what if I fall? And it's like, but what if you fly? Right, like it's, you know it's.
Speaker 1:
It's that kind of a thought process as he walks through in the book, like these are the questions in the order of how do you face your fear? Right, the only way to deal with fear is to just face it head on. And these are the questions you can ask yourself to get through that. Right, what's the worst case scenario? How would I handle that? How is that going to work? What you know? So what, right? And then what happens if I don't do anything? Right, what happens if I don't face this fear? What happens if I don't move past it.
Speaker 2:
You know, I think it's super important to do something about it. So we've talked a lot today, sam, about thinking, but this is also about doing, and so he does end the chapter right by saying it's time and I know we're almost out of time, speaking of time. So again, friends, speaking of time. So again, friends, I implore you, I encourage you, I invite you, I hope that you will get a copy of this book and get yourself to page 178. That's where this talks about it's time to take action on those things that you're afraid about.
Speaker 2:
Maybe you've had scenarios in your life that have affected you a certain way, and you are. You have sat in fear around that. Or maybe you've thought you know, I'd really like to well, for my case, write a book. Then stop being afraid that no one's going to read it and just write it. Maybe you're afraid of going on a trip somewhere that you've never been, but you get to go there and experience some part of this world that brings the globe a little bit smaller.
Speaker 2:
What if you took a leap and took a jump and I by no means am advocating on this call for you to quit your job if you don't know where you're going to be headed, but don't stay stuck because you're afraid that you can't go, do, be and have something different if you are not happy where you are. Remember, this book is called Solve for Happy. So if there's some part of your life that is not happy, the idea here is it's time now for you to take action to get yourself somewhere happy Now, Sam, I know we're out of time for today. What was something you want to share about wrapping up this part of the book, or maybe setting the stage for us moving into a transition next time?
Speaker 1:
that was interesting. The very last thing in this chapter is he has this quote that says learn to die before you die. It's time to face your fears. And this comes from the story of if you face your biggest fear, right like, let's say it's you're afraid, like people are afraid of dying. That's a common, a fear. But if you learn to face it and if you learn to walk through it before the event happens right Like before I fall, I learn to fall.
Speaker 1:
Right Before I get bit by a spider, I learn to get bit by a spider. Right it's, if you tackle the fear, then there's nothing holding you back. There's no restraints, there's no, you're like, you're free to live. Right, it's time to do that, and I think that that's you know, that's what you're saying is it's time to take action and it's time to just face it head on, to learn to die before you die, so that you can have the freedom to live. And I think that that's incredibly beautiful. And I think, if I'm wrapping up all of these, you know six grand illusions. It's learning to bust through those so that you've got a space to be happy. Right, if I can break the illusions, if I can break through these things, then I now have a platform. I now have the space to not suffer.
Speaker 2:
And it's not going to be haphazard, friends. Next week we're going to go through seven different blind spots, so this isn't about just taking these grand illusions and just jumping with no plan. This is around how to see those blind spots and then the ultimate truths to get you to happy. So I hope this is adding value to it certainly is to me. I know, sam, that our time together for me always helps me to see beyond what I read in the book by myself, and so thank you for that. Friends, my name is Denise Russo. My friend and co host is Sam Powell.
Speaker 2:
Together, we've been walking out loud the pages of this book Solve for Happy. This has been, yet again, one more episode of what's on your Bookshelf, and we hope that you'll join us next week as we get ourselves to write about halfway through the book. If you're enjoying this, would you please consider subscribing and sharing it with others and share your feedback with us, because it really does help us to understand what are your takeaways, what are the things that you're doing to solve for your own happiness? So, again, thank you for joining us today. It's been another episode of what's on your Bookshelf.