What's on Your Bookshelf?

88 - The Happiness Project - October

Denise Russo, Andy Hughes, Scott Miller, and Samantha Powell Season 2 Episode 42
Can embracing mindfulness truly impact our daily lives and transform our perspectives? Join us on "What's on Your Bookshelf" as we engage in an insightful conversation about mindfulness, inspired by Gretchen Rubin's "The Happiness Project." This episode features reflections from Denise Rousseau and Sam Powell, who contemplate the significance of being present, particularly during the reflective autumn season. Denise shares a heartfelt story of celebrating her father's 80th birthday, reminding us of the importance of creating and cherishing meaningful moments. Meanwhile, Sam offers his own experiences of navigating new life phases with purpose and attention.

Shift your mindset from anxiety and worry to positivity and productivity through our "Empowering Thought Reflection for Mindfulness" segment. Discover how questioning the validity of your fears and transforming "what if" scenarios into positive affirmations can change your outlook. We'll delve into the power of focusing on truths and beauties, drawing on biblical principles, and share practical strategies such as meditation and music to reset negative thought patterns. Learn how these tools can help you achieve a more motivated and productive mindset, allowing you to invest your energy in purposeful activities.

Finally, explore the practical side of mindful living with discussions on "Reexamining Rules for Mindful Living" and "Eating Mindfully for Daily Awareness." Understand the importance of questioning the guiding principles that shape your behavior and emotions, and learn how mindful eating can foster a more attentive lifestyle. We'll also introduce insights from a friend's book on mindful eating and share a powerful exercise for visualizing your ideal life. Tune in for actionable tips and engaging conversations that will inspire you to cultivate mindfulness in your everyday routines.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to what's on your Bookshelf, with your hosts Denise Russo and Samantha Powell.

Speaker 2:

Hello everyone, welcome back. It's another episode of what's on your Bookshelf. This is a life and leadership podcast where we are living out loud the pages of the books that are on our bookshelves. The book that we're exploring is called the Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin. My name is Denise Rousseau. I'm here with my co-host and friend, sam Powell, and today we are talking about how to pay attention. I think that's an interesting word pay, pay attention. So I'm curious how this episode will go together, but I'm happy to be here with you today, sam.

Speaker 1:

I'm happy to be here today with you too, especially on this topic, because I know that mindfulness is something that you really practice in your life, and I mean you've brought that into meetings.

Speaker 1:

I've been in with you in the business world you know, you talk about, you know things you do in this space in your own life, and it's interesting, like I think about this, as you know the way she did this. This is October. This is like she's in the United States. So this is the fall, the autumn time of the year. This is very much a time of year when we're slowing down, right, like the spring is all about new and blossoming and life and the summer is all about just the heat and the energy and you know that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

But as you move to fall, there is something naturally reflective about it. As you're preparing for winter, you're preparing for that like dormant hibernation type vibe that I like October for mindfulness, like as I think about, like you know, for me, like I'm expecting a baby in October, but like I love this thought process of like entering that time of year with purpose, with attention to the present, to the moment you're in, and for me this will be a big transition. You can easily go through that. You know the newborn phase of like oh, it's just constant cycle of like feeding in diapers and not sleeping and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but slowing it down and being mindful, you know, and all of that, like I just I like the way this one fell for her, like as far as which month this one ended up in.

Speaker 2:

That's a super interesting way to think about this, because if you are thinking about a calendar year starting in January, in January you set out with your resolutions from whatever it was you didn't do the year before. By February, you're going to drop most of those and then in Q3, at the very beginning of Q3, maybe the end of Q2, but around the June July timeframe, people are doing a look back and a look forward. What did I get done the first six months of the year? What am I looking forward to the last six months of the year? But you're right, october begins Q4 in business, and that's a time to her.

Speaker 2:

About having some mindful time in this month was the cultivation of conscious, non judgmental awareness, and so I think you were mentioning, maybe in the last episode, something about how Dan was saying, something about. You know, are you going to start to be like a vegetarian and a hippie and all of this stuff after reading these books? But mindfulness to me is is an interesting concept of is it really to make your mind full, or is it to make your mind empty, or is it to make your mind healthy? And I think it's probably that last one, which is what are the thoughts we're thinking, what are the beliefs we're holding on to, what are the things that drive what we do in our life, with the actions or inactions, like in all of these months that we've had, these happiness projects up until now, and what are the results or the outcomes we have in life, and how can you let go of some sort of personal attachment to the outcomes, but simply without, without attachment, non judgment, toward the fact that you're living out your life? I saw this article the other day, sam, and it was saying something that was extraordinarily mindful to me, which was think about this you will likely only have, if you take the average lifespan of a person, let's call it 80 years. You will only have 80 birthdays, you will only have 80 summers, you will only have 80 whatever in your life. What are you doing with them?

Speaker 2:

And I can think back even just not long ago, we were going to be celebrating my dad's 80th birthday and it was an interesting day because it was the one year there was no fanfare, there was nobody around except for me and my mom and my son, and it was almost like this sort of not depressed, because that's not the right word but a low energy experience. I called him that day, that morning, and I said, dad, where do you want to go for dinner? Well, I don't give a crap, I don't care where we go, I'll eat a hamburger, I'll eat a bologna sandwich. It was like this sad sort of like I don't think he was expecting there to be a big thing, but he also was taking it to say I don't care, but not like, oh, I don't care, let's go anywhere. It was almost like I don't even care and it got me to and my mom and dad, that's all that went. And it was kind of like this really meaningful time, because I was sitting there and what I was thinking about was my last 50 plus years of having these experiences with my dad, and I don't really know what my dad was exactly thinking in those moments, but I can tell you that we left his birthday dinner with him smiling and laughing and having a good time. But I think that the whole point of what I experienced is that if I had not taken the time while I was sitting there and what I did after, I left him to think about my thoughts I would have lost that core memory and maybe it just would have been like another day going out to dinner at a restaurant.

Speaker 2:

It's about going deep into your thinking and finding some sort of benefits. And so Gretchen does say that scientists point out that mindfulness calms your mind, it elevates your brain function, it gives you clarity and vividness to present experience, and it may help people break unhealthy habits. And it can soothe troubled spirits and lift people's moods. It reduces stress and chronic pain. It makes people happier, less defensive and more engaged with others. And you're right, sam, I love mindfulness and the idea of paying attention to thoughts. I try to do that every day through my prayer time. So, no matter what your belief system is, mindfulness is about your time with just you, the most important person there is to you in this world, and taking the time to think about what you're thinking about.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and she, as she kicks off this chapter, she talks about you know, when you think about mindfulness, when you think about bringing your attention to the present moment, to you know the things that are happening to you, right, like people were giving her recommendations oh you should meditate, oh you should try this. And she tried lots of different things but at the end of the day, it really came down to what appeals to you. Right, she was like meditation just isn't her thing. For some people, that it absolutely is. For other people, that's not it.

Speaker 1:

But mindfulness is that practice of bringing attention to what is happening right here, right now, without judgment. Right, it's not like, oh, I'm feeling like, oh, my, you know, like my chest feels tight, I just feel like this emotion and then I have to judge that and I have to fix that. It's not that. Mindfulness is what is happening right now, like it's a curious kind of environment for you to just really sit and do that. And she like her ways. We didn't talk about this, but her four things were meditate on cones, examine true rules, stimulate the mind in new ways and keep a food diary. I just love to keep a food diary. Was in there.

Speaker 1:

And we'll talk about that as we get through it. But the you know, what she's really trying to do is to get herself off the hamster wheel of go, go, go, go, go off the hamster wheel of go, go, go, go, go, just living life and into a. What can I do to really like you said, like, bring your attention to the things that you're doing. Right, bring attention to the things that you're thinking, and a lot of people do, like you said, prayer. You know things like that. Some people do that while they're exercising.

Speaker 1:

It's like this is where I, just my body, is occupied and so my mind is now free to think about everything. That's why people like shower thoughts are such a thing. Right, because it's this repetitive action that you don't really have to think about. If you're an adult and you've taken thousands and thousands of showers in your life, you don't have to think about what you're doing, and so your mind ends up wandering to where you go and you just follow that train, you allow that to happen and you think about what is. You know what is really going on, without the anxiety of what's happening in the future, without the oh my gosh, what's happening in the past. It's what's happening right here, right now did you?

Speaker 2:

had you ever heard of these coens?

Speaker 1:

I hadn't.

Speaker 2:

This was a new concept for me and I don't like, even if sure I read this.

Speaker 1:

I'm not sure I 100% get it to be very honest, but it's like you tell me if I'm wrong here but like basically, it's just these thoughts that you can't logic through. Like it's these little sayings like Robert Frost's the best way out is always through the we set out to be wrecked by JM Berry. Like it's these thoughts that you contemplate and you think about but you can't. Like it just expands your thought process. Like it expands the way you need to think, because it's not like one plus one equals two, it's one plus one could equal five. And you're like well, how could that happen? Like what does this really mean? Why am I even looking at this? Like it's this contemplative, weird little saying sentence, whatever.

Speaker 1:

I had not heard of these at all and I don't even know. Like I've come across stuff like this. It's like that. Tell me again what you just said, or let me reread that. Like I've experienced it and I think about it. It does help me expand, but it's a. It's a I don't know. This was an interesting one for me I had never heard of it either.

Speaker 2:

And she was talking about how monks use it to let go of reason as they try to become more enlightened. And she said these fragmented thoughts kept interrupting her mind because they would float through her mind at weird times of the day, like if she was at the subway or staring at a computer stream uh, screen. And she said there was one like uh that. She says it's one of the most famous ones, I guess, and I'd never heard of these before. But she says the most most famous Cohen is two hands clap and there is sound. So okay. But then it goes after that and says well then what is the sound of just one hand?

Speaker 1:

I read that and I made that, like I just moved my hand to where I made the sound I was like there is a sound.

Speaker 1:

So I was like I figured it out. But it's the, it's the art of contemplating that thought process, right, I think? Like it kind of reminds me of like, if, if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound? Right, like it's the thought, it's the act of contemplating that which, if you're somebody who is a like, would think of yourself as a thinker, as somebody who is maybe a little more philosophical, like this could be a good exit like it would be an interesting exercise, and I think we all come across little riddles like this here and there.

Speaker 1:

I think the internet's got some good memes in this space. Um, but yeah, it was just. It's an interesting thing, but yeah, kind of breaking that thought process of although I'm trying to figure something out too, I'm just trying to contemplate.

Speaker 2:

It's an interesting, interesting experience she says that it basically was helping her to think about thinking. So, for example, I suppose, if you're at work, if you are, let's say that you are struggling with something I guess the question you could ask would be something like is it true? Like? I'll give you a real life example we have some mutual friends who have spent more than a year every day going to work wondering if that day is going to be their last day at work. Day is going to be their last day at work, is it true? We don't know.

Speaker 2:

But imagine this eight to 10 hours of your day has invested your thinking time in worry, in fear, in anxiety, in a story that we make up in our minds. That may or may not be. So what if you could take the question mark? This is the topic of a book I'm working on right now. What if you could take that question mark and replace it with an exclamation point?

Speaker 2:

So, instead of thinking, what if I lose my job today, if you turn it upside down and you say, what if I don't lose my job today? What could my day be like if I had the best day ever? Who could I invest my time with? Who can I share gratitude with what's something I could do that would make someone feel better about what I brought to the table today, and so, to me, that's really what it was about, which was examining your thinking for the things that are true. I think there's a quote I'm going to say that I think that it is from the Bible and I'm going to misquote it badly, so sorry for this but it basically says that when you are thinking on your thoughts, think of things that are true, and think of things that are lovely, and think of things that have purpose and meaning. If you have the power over your thoughts and you're thinking about opposite of those things, things that are untrue, things that are unloving, things that don't have a purpose, things that are harmful, things that are not bringing you closer to your passions, potential and purpose in life, then the residents that they're taking up in your head are removing the ability for you to have all those other true and lovely thoughts that should be living there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that we all need ways to like reset that thought process, to like, you know, like I've got a couple tricks up my sleeve that it's like, oh, my thoughts are going in a bad direction, you know direction, I don't want them to go into my. You know, like I just I don't know, I'm unmotivated, I'm whatever, and it's like, okay, well, what is what's my bag of tricks that I have to do that? Like for her it was these coins. For some people it's a meditation, right. Like I really like the insight timer app because it's free and it has everything from like less than one minute to longer, you know, exercises and it's different types of like mindfulness specific stuff, or like actual meditations or whatever. So, like, there's things like that.

Speaker 1:

Or just music, right, like some people, it's like I love to turn on music. It's like I just need to change my mood, like I just need something to jump me into, that, right, to take me into that. But you've got to be able to recognize and that's a lot of what mindfulness is is being able to recognize where I'm at right now, right, like what is happening, what is going on, what is true, what is the reality of my situation is going on, what is true, what is the reality of my situation? And then what do I want it to be? Is kind of your next step. And then what's that bag of tricks?

Speaker 1:

You have to pull yourself into it, like when I feel unproductive, working from home, doing whatever, I throw on a podcast that helps me flip myself into that brain of like inspiration and movement. And then it's like, okay, now I'm gonna bang out a whole day of stuff, right, but like everybody needs those things that work for them, and that's what she's saying is like these coins were one of those things for her that helped her think, about her thinking what are the things that help you bring you into yourself, to recognize stuff? Sometimes it's just a reminder on your phone that goes off four times a day that says how are you, what's the feeling, what's the emotion in your body, right, like just something that helps bring you into that space and then can help you break out of a potentially negative or just neutral cycle. You don't want to be in right and you just want to be in something different.

Speaker 2:

Have you ever noticed that you've driven somewhere and you think to yourself that you don't really remember driving there?

Speaker 1:

and how dangerous that is that that happens all the time but yeah, that's exactly it and that happens all the time in life. Right, where it's like I completed an entire activity, I took an entire shower, I did whatever I, you know, I put all the dishes away and I don't even really remember doing it. Right, and it's because your brain isn't in your present moment. Right, it's not with you, it's it's in the future. It's in the past, it's not now, and that's where you've got to bring your attention back to. That's what she's. When she says pay attention in October, that's what she's really talking about. And I like where she took this right from this, like, okay, she has this cones activity that like really makes her think, about her thinking. But then she goes into examining the rules. And if I were to write a book, this is one of the books I will write at some point in my life is about examining the rules in your own life, right, so she called these the examine the true rules, but for her it's it's. It's examples of things like my children are my most important priority. Get some exercise every day. I know as much as most people, you know. Whenever possible, choose vegetables, right. It's like what are these rules that we live by, these true rules we live by in our life. And let's take a look at those. Do they serve us? Are they conflicting? Let's take a look at those. Do they serve us? Are they conflicting? Are they? Did they serve us in the past but don't serve us in our present right or won't serve us in the future? We're trying to get to Like I think this is such an important mindful activity for people to do frequently in their life of why did I do that thing Right? What rules were playing? What roles was I playing Right? Whose rules was it? And you know like this is a great one.

Speaker 1:

This is what I love the guilty emotion, for Guilty is one of the feelings that helps us realize we need to examine rules, because the question you got to ask yourself is who's rule was broken right? When I'm guilty, it means I have broken a rule. That is the feeling, that's the like, that's the cause and effect. What rule have I broken? Whose rule is it? And do I want to play by that rule? Yes, right, and we see this all the time.

Speaker 1:

And there's so much time where we're carrying around this guilt and it's like, well, I guilty. Well, the question really to ask yourself is what rule is broken? Right, I should be this, but I was this. I should have done this, but I did this. This should have happened, but it didn't. What rule is that? And then how to do that? And so, like I like where guilty is not normally a positive emotion, I love when guilt pops up in my life because it lets me think about the rules and I'm all about like the rules are made up and the points don't matter. Right, like that's my big thing and like I. So I loved this examination. I loved the rules that she found for herself, that she found that other people told her you know were their rules. I loved the rules that she found for herself, that she found that other people told her you know were their rules. I thought this was an interesting one, and interesting in the context of mindfulness.

Speaker 2:

Well, she shared that when you have all these rules, depending on who created them or how they were broken, she said several of them were difficult to balance, but I had highlighted a rule that she learned from her mom, and that rule was that the things that go wrong often make the best memories. And somehow that sentence, for her, was very comforting and true. And when you think about that, she was saying, if something went wrong, that it was a good lesson. And how would that be comforting? Because when things go wrong in the moment you don't feel very comforted. But it's almost like John Maxwell's book sometimes you win, sometimes you learn, yeah, and so it's in the learning that we're growing.

Speaker 2:

And so she goes on, like you said, to talk around things like rules that are unhelpful, like always say hello, what would my mother do? Don't be bored, change is good, change can be good, but change could also not be good. So she goes on with all this list of these things that we think to be true. And so, she said she also picked up a helpful, true rule from her sister, who told her that people succeed in groups, and I found that one to be interesting because I have worked remotely for most of my career and I consider myself extremely introverted and I don't get energy being around a lot of people, and yet everything that you hear about anything about success in life and in business entails collaboration, communication, cooperation and connection with other people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's funny you say you I've heard you say that about yourself, I don't know how many times, but I, I just don't have that same perspective on you and the and my argument is your calendar is full and it is full of you talking to people, engaging with other people. I think that introversion, extroversion and like all that kind of stuff, like it's just, I don't know, like, whatever the rules are, the box you've got there, then feel right to me, because I don't think of you, as you know, like I agree with the thing of like we work best in groups. I believe in collaboration. I believe that, um, is it John Maxwell that says um, your, uh, I forget who it is but your, you might be the smartest person in the room, but you're never smarter than all the people in the room. Right, like, I firmly believed that's one of my rules. I'm like that's definitely true. Right, there's no way. It's not.

Speaker 1:

And I, you know, I think that, like that interaction with people, like, just because you're not sitting physically in a big group of people, just because you're not physically going out there to like spend all this crazy extroverted energy, doesn't mean you're not in collaboration with people. Right, like you're not engaged, you're not connected with the people like you are one of the most connected people I've ever met. Like you know everybody, you talk to everybody. I don't know how many conversations you and I've started. Where I was talking to this person, you need to meet my friend who does this. And I'm like why do I need to meet your friend? And you're like you just do. And then, surprise, I did like it was just a nice conversation, like wonderful connection, but I, like I don't know, I like to me I think this is kind of part of that like breaking, unbreaking the rules that are like you know, like breaking apart the rules that we think we live by. We think that being extroverted means you're engaging in a certain way. We think that you're either extroverted or you're introverted.

Speaker 2:

And like.

Speaker 1:

I don't think so. Like I'm perfectly content sitting on my back porch by myself reading a book for hours. I'm also perfectly content engaging with my friends for hours. Both of those things give me energy. So, like, where does that leave me? Right In this binary setup, right? So I like I don't know I it's funny you say that all the time about yourself but like I don't know, I don't think it's that black and white. I think you are one of the most most engaged people. I don't know that I would call that extroversion. Really. Like it's something different, something more complex than are you introverted or are you extroverted.

Speaker 2:

My friend calls it ambivert. She says you're an ambivert which is sort of like that flexing between the two. I think and I agree with you. If I think back in my career, I actually went to Universal Studios last weekend with a friend of mine and with Vincent, and it was just such a beautiful time because Vincent has become friends with her son. Now she doesn't live near us, she lives probably about three hours away, I think and she and her husband came up last minute no notice and just said hey, what are you guys doing Saturday? And it just happened to be a random Saturday that we had nothing to do, which is extraordinarily rare in my family. So she said come to Universal, we're going to be there.

Speaker 2:

I met this person, my friend Kim, one, two, three, four, five, maybe six jobs ago. Five, maybe six jobs ago just to date. It like 1998, I think, is what we fell on, because we couldn't even remember the year that we started working together. But sometime in the 90s, in the 1900s, I met my friend Kim and and so we were talking about how the things, about the experiences that we make with those that we love, are what matters. What brought us together was a job, but what kept us together was beyond the tasks of the job, and as she and I were talking about it, I was mentioning to her that of all the jobs that I've had, it's always been about the people that I worked closest with. That I appreciate the most, and some of these people have become what I call family friends that are worked closest with. That I appreciate the most. And some of these people have become what I call family friends that are family to me. I've been to their weddings, I've seen their children go through different stages in their life and they've seen my kids do the same. And there's just something about that, if you're going to spend that much time at work, that you work on the relationships that you have with those that you are around. But it's also important for you to find yourself in experiences or places where your heart and your mind are both stimulated.

Speaker 2:

And this is sort of where Gretchen goes next, where she talks about how to be more mindful. She had to use her brain in different and more unfamiliar ways to enhance the experience of the moment that she was in. And so your frame of mind. I loved how she kind of put that wording, because when you think of a frame like a picture frame, the frame of your mind. You decide what goes into the frame, and so she said that she was posting these sticky notes around her apartment about the frame of mind she wanted to cultivate. So she was deciding what was in the picture. So right next to her laptop she has the sticky note that says I am focused and observant, but in her bedroom she has a sticky note that says quiet your mind. And then she has something in her bathroom that says tight, tender and lighthearted. And she goes on.

Speaker 2:

And Olivia, my daughter, she made me this beautiful handmade painting. She's super creative and it has all of these thoughts and verses and thinking and mindful examples all over the painting and I decided to hang it in my bathroom. And she was so upset when I put it in the bathroom. She's like you have all these other things in the living room prominently displayed, but you put this in the bathroom. And the thing I said to her was Olivia, the bathroom is the room that I go in the most during the day, when I don't have to be thinking about doing.

Speaker 2:

I'm not watching TV in the living room, I'm not cooking dinner in the kitchen, I'm not doing laundry in the laundry room. It's a place where my mind can actually focus, and because I go in there every single day, multiple times a day. I know probably TMI, but you know when you're you have a bathroom, the reality is we all go in them, and so this thing that's in there when I'm there, I see it, I notice it, I am, I look at it, I read it, I ponder it, I think about the things that are written there, and so for me it's like a daily. That's my daily post. It note is that my daughter made me this beautiful thing, and so she just simply says that if you are looking for ways to help your brain think about your thinking, you have to put it in a place where you don't have distractions around your thinking.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely, definitely, and you just have to find those, those ways that do stimulate you in ways that work for you specifically. Right, and sometimes that is doing something a little bit different or putting things in places where, hey, I'm in the right frame of mind to engage in the way that you know that I want to do. But, yeah, that's what brings mindfulness into it, right, like, can I engage purposefully, can I shake myself out of the thing that you know, the thing that I'm in, and I know we're running close on time. But the last thing she says and I want to say one thing about this is the food diary was one of the things that she did, yes, which was like she's like I'm not trying to be on a diet, I'm not trying to do whatever, but it was bringing consciousness to your eating. And I did some some mindfulness type of program one time where they did talk about eating and because eating and you and I did this in our retreat too of mindful eating and things like that but we eat all the time, right, it's the same things. Like we go to the bathroom all the time, we take a shower, you know, often, right, like these are the regular things that we do in our life, and eating is one of those things we do repetitively multiple times a day, hopefully right and um. In that it's don't just blow through the activity right, don't just be like, oh, to eat this on the go. Right, like there were. I remember one year where I used to eat my breakfast in the car as I drove in, right, like that was just the hecticness, craziness of life, but taking the moment to really bring your attention to what you're doing One it's a great way to bring consciousness to what you are eating. Like for her, it was the diary of like, oh gosh, I've been eating this thing I don't really want to eat. Or like I reach for this snack before.

Speaker 1:

I know we talked about that a lot of atomic habits, but there is something about eating that is an easy grab for people who are trying to find a way to be mindful. It's like, put the phone down, turn the TV off and just focus on your plate, on your food, sit there and really like, chew and swallow, go through the sensations of eating and you'll be surprised at how that changes what you're doing. Right, it's not scarf everything down because we can't do this right, like we, we got to hurry, we got to rush the world, you know, like all that sort of good stuff. It's just bringing the attention. But I think that, like I mentioned this one because you know you, we could probably brush over it. But for somebody who is trying to find an easy grab in the mindfulness space, I think your meals are actually one of the spaces that are really easy to grab. That, if you stop rushing through it and start focusing on the actual act of eating your meal, that is a mindfulness activity.

Speaker 2:

That's a very easy win for people I would love to talk with this more, with you as listeners, because this actually is a really extraordinarily life-changing thing that you can do for yourself. I have a friend that wrote a book about this and I would I'll share that book. Scott, remind me that I have to share this book with you. My friend Wongi wrote this book about mindful eating and how it helped him to be able to maximize the health he has in his life. It's, it is mind blowing to read this book and start incorporating it into your own life.

Speaker 2:

This is a topic that I know we're out of time to discuss today, but if you are someone who is looking for ways to be more mindful, reach out for a discovery call with one of us. One of my absolute most favorite exercises I do with my coaching clients is to have them close their eyes and to imagine what they want their life to be like, or to imagine a scenario that doesn't actually exist, so that they could start to create tangible, realistic, real action plans that get them to that place. It's extraordinarily effective. So if that's something that you're thinking about, needing or wanting, reach out to us. Scott has ways for you to reach us in the show notes, but for today, this has been yet again, another incredible conversation. My name is Denise Russo and, on behalf of my friend, sam Powell, who I'm so grateful for and do get to spend some mindful moments with, this has been another episode of what's On your Bookshelf.