What's on Your Bookshelf?
“What’s On Your Bookshelf” is a personal and professional growth podcast exploring the intersections of passion, potential, and purpose - featuring multi-certified coach and leadership development consultant Denise R. Russo alongside Sam Powell, Zach Elliott, Tom Schweizer, Dennis LaRue, and Michelle King.
What's on Your Bookshelf?
113 - The Obstacle Is The Way, Perspective
It always starts with a moment. A moment when everything feels impossible.
For Denise, it was standing at the crossroads of a career shift, staring down uncertainty like an opponent in the ring. For Sam, it was watching someone she believed in struggle—not because they lacked talent, but because they couldn’t see their own path forward.
What makes the difference in those moments? It isn’t strength. It isn’t luck. It’s perspective.
In this episode, Sam and Denise dive into Part One of The Obstacle Is the Way by Ryan Holiday, exploring the idea that how we see the world determines how we move through it. Through powerful real-world stories—like John D. Rockefeller during the financial collapse of 1857 and Ruben “Hurricane” Carter’s refusal to be broken by wrongful imprisonment—they break down the ways perception can either trap us or set us free.
But this isn’t just about history. It’s about you.
Denise reflects on the moments when a shift in perspective turned failure into opportunity—how choosing to see a roadblock as a challenge instead of an end point rewrote the story. Sam shares how learning to stay calm when everything screamed panic became the key to unlocking new possibilities.
We don’t control our circumstances, but we do control how we see them.
Expect to walk away with:
- A new way to look at the challenges in front of you
- Practical strategies for maintaining perspective under pressure
- A reminder that even in the hardest moments, there’s a way forward
Tune in. Shift your view. And take the first step through the obstacle in front of you
Connect with us on our LinkedIn page School of Thoughts . We also value your reviews, subscribing, and sharing our podcast "What's On Your Bookshelf?" on Apple and Spotify.
Subscribe to our new YouTube channel.
Welcome to what's on your Bookshelf, a life and leadership podcast where we live out loud the pages of the books that are on our shelves, with your host, denise Russo, and Sam Powell. Hi, everyone, welcome back to another episode of what's on your Bookshelf. My name is Denise Russo, I'm here with my friend, sam Powell, and this is our podcast, where we're living out loud the pages of the books that are on our bookshelves, and the book that we're going through is a book called the Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday. We're about I don't know almost one third of the way through the book, about I don't know almost one third of the way through the book, and we're going to wrap up today talking about perspective and how we change our thinking, which, sam, is one of the favorite things I like to talk about. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing good. I'm doing good, I'm glad to get through this section with you and move on to the next one. But I it's just funny, like this section, I can't help, but like every single little thing we read in here, just think about you, because this is like I don't know how many times you've said this to me or said this to like the listeners or whoever will listen really, at the end of the day, that like you've got to start with your thoughts on really everything. And he's saying he's just phrasing it differently, but you've got to start with your perspective. But Start with your thoughts on really everything. And he's saying he's just phrasing it differently, but you've got to start with your perspective.
Speaker 2:But this chap, this little like mini chapter inside the section that we're starting with today, is think differently. And it's. It starts with a story about Steve Jobs which I feel like a lot of people are really, really familiar with. But really, you know, thinking that, like it, you know you've got to think outside the box and I think, think differently. Isn't that? What's that apple's? Isn't that apple's like slogan for a while, or I don't know that it still is, but like you know, like it's just this concept of like I always say it reminds me of the um, uh, the improv show.
Speaker 2:Whose line is it anyways? Like the rules are made up and the points don't matter, like it's almost that same thing of like you can't limit yourself to thinking inside these boxes, and that's sort of like was steve jobs really his whole thought process? Like he fired people who said no, we can't do that. He's like find me someone who can right, who can think that this is possible, who can think that this is the way to go, and and I think there's just so much freedom in that. But it just it always like foundationally just brings me back to you and like you've got to change your thoughts first before you get to action, which is the next section we'll get into next week. But you know, as we wrap up perspective, I like again just to sit here thinking about how you encourage us to think differently first really change the thoughts that are going through our minds.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It starts with a quote in this chapter from F Scott Fitzgerald that says genius is the ability to put into effect what is in your mind. There's no other definition of it, and so, as I was reading this part of the chapter or of the book, it was really talking about also confidence and how, if you are confident in your belief, if we think about that thing you were just saying that I talk about, which is, if you want different results, you have to look at your actions. Your actions come from your beliefs, your beliefs stem from your thoughts, but if you believe and you're confident about something and you're confident about something, then the sky really is the limit. And so I was watching this show recently on Netflix because, as you know, I don't sleep well and so at night I am too tired to read anything that's meaningful, so sometimes I will, in the middle of the night, turn on television, and I don't have cable, so I have these streaming services, which is a different way of thinking about watching TV even.
Speaker 1:But the show that I was watching this past week is called Younger, and the gist of the show is that it's about this woman who is 40. And she ended up making a decision early in her life. She was working in a publishing house and loved her career, but she wanted to be a mom. So she decided to have kids and then she lost a lot of time in her career journey while she was building and investing time as being a mom. Well, it gets to the point, without giving lots of spoilers, that the daughter, her child, goes off to college and so now she's ready to go back into the workforce. But she was running up against brick walls everywhere she turned. She couldn't get a job, even though she was at one time very successful. But the world changed, technology changed, business changed, cultures changed, people who were in leadership changed, and so she was really struggling until she changed her thinking. Well, I'll let you go watch the TV show to figure out how she did, what she did, to change her thinking. But she was able to establish herself again very successfully, with not without obstacles, by the way to get herself back into work.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that stood out for me when I was thinking about that show and when I was thinking about this chapter, about thinking differently, it struck me when the job story was going on that not everyone likes it. When you're confident Not everyone likes it when you are really excelling and isn't that a shame when you see this sort of competition from others, when your thinking changes. And so I'd be curious, sam, to talk with you about. When we left the corporate rat race world to move into the world we're in, our entire thinking had to change. Some people were gung-ho for it, some people were gung ho for it, some people were gung ho but said I could never do what you're doing, and I suspect there's also people that were not so excited about thinking that what we were doing was the right way to think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, it's funny. When you were talking about that, that was the first thing that jumped to my mind is that it was surprising to me how many people were like trying to pull me back, pull me back down to reality in quotes, right, Like that kind of thing, and like they never outright said that to me. But there was just this like are you sure this is right? And it's funny? Last summer I had a friend that I had worked with call me up and say the same thing that happened to you happened to me. I just got laid off, I just accepted, you know, a severance package and now I'm gonna like find a new job and you know things like that. But I just she, she like the reason she called me particularly was because she said that she decided to take a little bit of a break, like she had gotten laid off like right at the beginning of last summer, and so she was like I'm going to have a summer of me and it's going to be great and I'm going to take this moment to do that, and then I'm going to get back to like looking for a job, like at the end, and she goes and people keep telling me that I'm crazy to do that, Like she's like it's just all these people that are like so negative about this thing that I really feel like is the right thing for me. And I was like, yeah, I was, I understand that Like and you know she and I had talked about that.
Speaker 2:It often comes from like yeah, you can tell it comes from people's own insecurities or their own fears or their own anxieties. You know about the advice the advice that you're getting from people is usually never about like you, it's usually about them, right? I had read this thing that I think forever changed my perspective and made me think differently about advice was that advice is a form of judgment, and I think about that as I was like I love to give advice, I like to talk right. And I think about that as I was like I love to give advice, I like to talk right. So ever since I read that, I really think twice about giving people advice, because I think I've come around to this thought process on it that it is me inserting my beliefs, my judgments, my insecurities, my anxieties onto someone else's situation. Like, oh, I it's like the thing you said right, Like that's really awesome for you. I could never do that and there's something about that I could never do that. That kind of brings your energy down right.
Speaker 2:Like the kind of things well, if they could never do it, could I not do it? Am I like? Is that? Is that how this is? And it's I don't know. It's really interesting and yeah, you're spot on. It's that when you go boldly, when you walk into something with confidence, there's always going to be a lot of people, even people who are really close to you, who are very supportive of you or think they're very supportive of you, that say are you sure? Yeah, that trips you up a little bit.
Speaker 1:You're the only one that lives in your skin. So, yes, it's great to have people around you that love you and care about you, but they're coming from a place from within their skin. You're right, and sometimes it's going to be helpful and sometimes it may not feel hurtful, but in the end it would be hurtful. And the book actually talks about this, about the perception that you get from outside influences. It says our perceptions determine to an incredibly large degree what we are and are not capable of. In many ways they determine reality itself when we believe in the obstacle more than the goal, which will inevitably triumph. And that's the whole point of the book.
Speaker 1:The obstacle has to be removed, but in order to remove it, I think the best story has been in this book from the very beginning, when it's talking about the villagers that needed to get around this giant rock. This is like not everyone likes it when you think the rock is movable because they can't move it or they think that they can't move it. So it says in the book you shouldn't listen too closely to what other people say or to that other voice in your head, like you ever watch these cartoons when you're little, where there's like a little devil on his shoulder, an angel on the shoulder, and they're kind of fighting back and forth with each other. I think the best example of that was probably the Emperor's New Groove.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking of that. That's the. That's the exact scene that went through my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they just continuously fight against each other because everyone has an opinion. But, in the end, thinking differently is about what you think, because what you think is going to then drive how you believe in yourself or in this opportunity that's in front of you, and those beliefs are going to drive your actions or your inactions. Because, to your point, if you don't believe you can do it because somebody else said you can't do it, because they can't do it, is that true? Is it true? And how much are you willing to commit to trying the thing? Like I often think back to the. There were so many stories. We've told over 100 episodes, right, but there was a story that you told a couple of years ago now. Can it be a couple years? A couple years ago?
Speaker 1:when you were talking about the beginning of atomic habits, when you were talking about simply putting on exercise pants, and it was such a good episode because you were talking about how you not only wanted to show up as someone who was a person that wanted to be healthy, but you believed that you could. But you had to start small first, by just putting on the pants.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that that's thinking differently is really sort of what like James Clear was getting at in that, because what he was really talking about, like those were like the one, what's the one little thing that you do, but it was really taking on it. Before we started this episode, you had said something about this of like taking on the identity of someone who does something is successful in a certain way, that sort of a thing and that's really what thinking differently does is like it really is. I'm thinking as if I'm already successful. I'm thinking as if there is a path, and there's a quote here, toward the end of the section that says an entrepreneur is someone with faith in their ability to make something where there was nothing before. And it's like that. I am someone who does have that entrepreneurial spirit. I am someone who is, you know, is an active person. So, therefore, I think differently about how things do, and that starts with I get dressed differently in a certain way, right, like, and that's where this book is headed. The actions come next. But you know, it's the.
Speaker 2:It takes that thought process, it takes that well, if I get up and instead of just putting on my regular clothes, like I do every day because that's what we do here. Right, we get up and we get dressed. It's no, I get up and I get dressed to be active, then I could put on the regular clothes for the day. Right, it's that. Okay, let's create that space. Let's create something where there we didn't think there was even that possibility before. Right, it's the Steve Jobs hiring people who say, no, there's no way we could do that in a week. And he's like, well, find me someone who knows we could do it in a week. Right. And the person who walks in next says, I can do that for you. Like, I got this right and so it's. You need that thought process of like I can do this. There can be a way. And you've got to think in that space. You can't think inside the boxes that we've all created for ourselves.
Speaker 1:He believed in things that many people would think is impossible. Years ago, I worked on this event called the Avon Breast Cancer Three Day, which is a three-day walk for breast cancer. Cancer three day, which is a three day walk for breast cancer, and it was a very big feat for people who either were not healthy or people who had been survivors of breast cancer, or people just in general who didn't go on long distance walkathons or have to raise a minimum, which was really a lot of money, just to even participate. And I'll never forget that in the first event that I worked on for that, we got these shirts from the company that we were working with that said impossible on the shirt, but there was an apostrophe between the I and the M, and so it changed this word of impossible into I'm possible, all by a little teeny change, a little apostrophe that made a big difference and something like that.
Speaker 1:And you think about the creativity in your own situation. Maybe you're someone who has been recently laid off or wish you were. Maybe you're someone who really loves your job but you want to be able to emerge some way new way of thinking. Maybe you're learning AI. Maybe you're learning a new product. Maybe you're learning about a new market, maybe it's just something that you can't see clearly yet, but here's the deal Not all stress is bad stress.
Speaker 1:It takes stress to move, something Like if you're, if you're exercising, you have to put stress on your muscles to make them stronger. In the same hand, not all stress is bad, but all bad stress is not good, and so I think it's important that, when we're looking for this and we move into the next piece here about finding the right opportunities, it's about really looking at how your role, in your own perspectives in life is what is going to determine whether you're going to listen to the one thing on the one shoulder or the thing on your other shoulder to make progress or not. And so, as we move into the next part of the book, finding your opportunity, I'm curious what stood out most for you in this chapter?
Speaker 2:I think that this, so this one starts out with a story about World War II and the German Blitzkrieg, which was the lightning war, and it was this like offensive move that really overwhelmed the ally forces and all the like. The quote in in the book says they could only see its power and their own vulnerability to it. And then it came. And then eisenhower came in and was like listen, no, there's. You know, the present situation is to be regarded as opportunity for us and not disaster. There will be only cheerful faces at this conference table, and so it was showing up in this moment of like we feel completely overwhelmed to show up as like nope, you have to come and face this and find the opportunity in this situation. It's like kind of reminded me of like radical acceptance of your situation.
Speaker 1:Like it is what it is.
Speaker 2:They are doing this. This is, this is the situation we find ourselves in, and so it's now our job as the author is Ryan Holiday here says is see the opportunity inside of the obstacle. Right, like we always try to get beyond the obstacle, we're trying to get around the obstacle, like we're trying to do anything to get around. It reminds me of that, like going on a bear hunt song, like you know, like a little kid song. It's like we're going on a bear hunt. It's like can't go through it, like we have to go through it, like we can't go over it. We can't go under it, we can't go around it, we have to go through it.
Speaker 2:And so you have to find what opportunities exist inside of this. The obstacle is immovable, it is in your way. There is no way around it. You only have the option to go through, and so when you do that, you really have to think about it as looking for the opportunity inside. And so to me, like that is just a big change in thinking about obstacles, like if you, if you really like took that into your heart and lived your life that way, like I don't know there's, like there's a lot of magic in that.
Speaker 1:I agree with you.
Speaker 1:This chapter is talking about how it's about controlling your emotions around those things.
Speaker 1:Obstacles elevate emotions and it's easy to become overwhelmed by the way you think about something because your emotions get triggered in some way. But the book says after you've controlled your emotions and you can see objectively and stand steadily, then the next step becomes possible a mental flip. So you're looking not at the obstacle but the opportunities within it, just like you said. And so when you think about this piece, it's very challenging to move beyond your own emotions and find solutions to the opportunities that sit in those obstacles, which is a perfect reason to engage with a qualified business coach, because that person is not emotional, they're impartial, they're nonjudgmental, they're not going to allow the left and the right shoulder to be fighting against one another, because they're there to show you what is possible, because you already know within your own self what you're willing to compromise, what you're willing to grow, what you're willing to set aside, what you're willing to give up in order to go up. It's just a coach is the way, I believe, for you to move through the obstacle the way you've described it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one of the coaching practices that you and I have both trained in in the Maxwell program is, like, that's the formula that we we use inside of that, we're trained inside of that program. Is that, like, you set the goal for you know the conversation you're having with the coach, then you talk about obstacles right away, but the next thing is, what are the opportunities, what are the options inside those obstacles? Right Like okay, so I know what's blocking me. Obstacles right Like okay, so I know what's blocking me.
Speaker 1:So what can I do?
Speaker 2:with it Right. What can I? What can I use all of this as? What options do I have to me to then move forward into that action, which is like where this book is headed? So it's, it is that, and that's like. That's the thing I feel like when I get to my own coach, when I coach clients, is that there's always some blocker that we're we're facing right. There's always just something that's in our way, whether that's just like it only just feels like procrastination, there's something deeper than that. Going on and like having those conversations with somebody who's trained to handle them helps so much in getting us just moving again and getting us seeing those opportunities inside of. You know the obstacles that we're facing.
Speaker 1:I want to encourage everyone, based on this, to read this book and this chapter specifically, because it talks around things like what do you do when you feel like you want to quit your job? What do you do when you have a boss that's really challenging to work with? What do you do if you're in the process of working an over stressful, extra hours job and trying to balance even having the energy to want to fix your resume and maybe you also at home have kids or family situations or other things going on that make it feel impossible? It also talks around what do you do if you need to change your attitude because there's something that you're afraid to try. It talks about what do you do if you made a mistake? What do you do if you work with someone at work that's kind of spineless? What do you do if you have a rival at work that constantly wants to pull you down? What do you do if you're working in an environment that's like crabs in a bucket, where you know you want to climb out, but there's so many forces pulling you back down? That's what I took out of this chapter thinking around changing your thinking about. What should you focus on? What should you put your energy in? Should you allow yourself to think of things that upset you or that empower you, that people that derail you or people that develop you? You know what things can you do to change your thinking, finding the right opportunities For me.
Speaker 1:One of the things that came out of this was a story for me about Olivia. We had in 2009,. Our home was destroyed in a FEMA disaster, a flood. A flood destroyed our whole community 1,800 homes. I know that there were a lot of my neighbors that, to this day, still haven't been able to climb out of the bucket. They lived in despair. Why did this happen to me? Not why did this happen for me, but my kids were little. They were in kindergarten and second grade at the time. They're both about to graduate from college pretty soon here now, for perspective sakes, and a few years after that experience happened, olivia looked at this.
Speaker 1:She was 10 at the time. She looked at the opportunity inside of that obstacle and said what could we do to help the people that are in the world that need help? Because people helped us, that opportunity became an organization she has called Save the Earth Projects, where she's now deployed over 100,000 pairs of shoes in the world to people that need them. There was an obstacle we lost all of our shoes. She saw it as an opportunity to do something good, because people did good things to help us, and she's then been able to impact and help people throughout the world.
Speaker 1:So the point of it is obstacles in life will always exist. This book is sharing how do you not just face the obstacle but, like you said, move through it to get to the other side of it, and you have to flip your thinking and then be prepared to act, and we're almost out of time for today. So, sam, wrap us up with how do we take this changing our thinking and preparing to find opportunities to actually prepare ourself to act as we move into the next part of the book actually prepare ourself to act as we move into the next part of the book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny, because this prepare to act is a step that I think people miss all of the time. When I was in my early tech troubleshooting support career, one of the things that we were trained on was the universal troubleshooting process. Like we go to troubleshootingcom that's what it is Like very low tech as far as like the website and stuff set up. But the process was this 10-step process to literally troubleshoot any single problem that you ever come across in your life, like everything from fixing your washing machine to like complex technical issues, and it's my favorite process. You know me, I'm a very process-oriented, systematic person. But step one of this whole process was prepare, and it was things like okay, if you're going to sit down and troubleshoot a problem, you got to get everything ready right. Do you have the tools open that you need to do this? Do you have your distractions minimized right, because you're trying to move through this very logically and solve this problem, and so like this, I like this made me think of that, because it's a one page chapter. That is the very last thing in your mind, like in your perception part of this book before we move into action. And it's the prepare to act, it's the getting into the mindset, it's realizing.
Speaker 2:He says it's a huge step forward to realize that the worst thing to happen is never the event, but the event and losing your head right.
Speaker 2:So it's not the hey, we are like things are really bad and like, okay, we're going to face this. It's things are really bad and I spiraled on it right, like Like it's always the spiraling that's worse, it's always the anxiety that's worse than the actual event if we just face it head on. And so that's what he really talks about is a clearer head makes for sturdier hands, and then those hands must be put to work. Good use. So you've got to. Once you get your perception all right here, once you get in control of all of that and all the episodes that we've talked about, you've got to get ready to act. But then you have to take the step. There are so many dreams and schemes and great things sitting in people's head, but in order to really make a difference, in order to really live the life that you want and like I like to talk about it, in order to self-lead, you have to step into action, and so you've got to get ready.
Speaker 1:And then boldly, take that next step. John Maxwell talks about this a lot People that get ready, to get ready, to get ready. They're just getting ready and then they don't do anything. So you're never going to change your circumstances if you don't take action. And so I'll close by saying that preparation isn't haphazard, but not acting is hazardous. So next week we're going to talk about shifting our perceptions and our thinking into actions. If you'd enjoyed these episodes, friends, we hope that you'll share them with others. There'll be ways as well for you to collaborate and communicate with me and Sam in the show notes. We're really excited for the future of the rest of this book, moving us from our thinking and our believing into our actions, which will ultimately give us different results and outcomes in our life, and to help us look at obstacles as the way to the opportunities that we have. So, on behalf of my friend Sam Powell, my name is Denise Russo, and this has been another episode of what's On your Bookshelf.
Speaker 2:Thank you.