What's on Your Bookshelf?
“What’s On Your Bookshelf” is a personal and professional growth podcast exploring the intersections of passion, potential, and purpose - featuring multi-certified coach and leadership development consultant Denise R. Russo alongside Sam Powell, Zach Elliott, Tom Schweizer, Dennis LaRue, and Michelle King.
What's on Your Bookshelf?
119-The Obstacle Is The Way: Part 2-Episode 5; Turning Trials into Triumph: How Your Obstacles Become Opportunities
Sam and Denise explore how to transform obstacles into opportunities by approaching challenges with strategic patience and focused energy rather than immediate reaction.
• Using obstacles against themselves requires stepping back and allowing some problems to "fizzle out" on their own
• Non-action can be a powerful form of action when dealing with emotional situations or seemingly immovable obstacles
• Channeling frustration into focused energy creates more sustainable results than emotional reactions
• The "long game" approach often outperforms immediate gratification in both sports and business settings
• Humility is essential when facing obstacles—sometimes admitting the original path isn't working opens new possibilities
• Acting versus "acting out" determines whether obstacles derail us or become opportunities for growth
• Strategic thinking and intentional actions often prove more effective than constant activity
We're continuing our journey through "The Obstacle is the Way" with two final chapters next week focusing on seizing the offensive and preparing for when things don't work out. Subscribe to catch both this show and our exclusive edition series on "Extreme Ownership" hosted by our producer Zach Elliott.
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Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of what's on your Bookshelf. This is our life and leadership podcast, where we're living out loud the pages of the books that are on our bookshelves. My name is Denise Russo, my co-host is Sam Powell, and together we're reading a book called the Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday. This book is a small book. It is about the art of turning your trials into triumph, and we are about midway through the book, and today we're going to be talking about something that's a little bit challenging around the way we look at obstacles. So, sam, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing good. I'm dealing with plenty of obstacles in my life currently, so this is good, and I think these two chapters that we'll cover today are really about, I don't know, kind of turning the obstacle on its head a bit and sort of using it against itself in a way, which is definitely interesting. I think we're in this action part of the book and we've been talking about a lot more direct action right Moving forward, pushing, going to the side, the flank attack, like we talked about last time, all that kind of stuff. This is a little bit more creative, I think, in the attack of the obstacle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so too. It's interesting because we've talked about a couple things off mic that maybe we'll bring into the discussion today. But basically this section here is talking around things like having patience, looking at your obstacles differently and more strategically. It's sort of like a game of chess where you have to play the move knowing that the move you're playing needs to consider the moves that are going to happen after that move.
Speaker 2:It seems like yeah, I think chess is a good analogy for this one.
Speaker 2:So this, this chapter is called use the obstacles against themselves and he says sometimes you overcome obstacles not by attacking them but by withdrawing and letting them attack you.
Speaker 2:And I think this is the chapter I have like I still have lots of highlights in it, but it I was having a harder time thinking about stories on this one and and thinking about like I don't know, I think this one takes a little bit, a little bit of like a secondary thought, because this is almost about not taking action. It's just a very it's it's kind of a different thing and so it's hard to remember the things that we don't do in effort to, like you said, kind of move the chess pieces later down the road. And so it's interesting, like and this one's just interesting and I think takes you takes you a minute to really rethink, like when I think about using a big obstacle against itself. I have to get really creative and it's hard for me to think in that space, especially because I think I'm just kind of more like offensively action oriented, right, like on the offense side, like this is more of like the defense side of action yeah, yeah, that's a good way to describe it.
Speaker 1:Did you have you heard of this book or this like concept teaching from Mel Robbins called let them? Yeah, I wonder if it's kind of like that, like the gist of it is is that if somebody is doing something like to you or bothering you or or doing something that you disagree with, the gist of it is that she says just let them want to respond and react, but she says you just let them, let them be, let them sort of like burn their own bridges, break their own issues, just let them. And that you control the controllables. And that's kind of the gist even in some of the stories here sort of.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's a story where the author is talking about how, when Martin Luther King Jr was dealing with some very intense physical forces against him and his followers, that his philosophy was to treat people with love and peace and standing still. And somehow I would imagine there were people that were in his group that disagreed with that approach, because it's much easier to go at the problem, to go kind of rushing through the obstacle, instead of standing back from the obstacle and figuring out how do you overcome the obstacle. The author says that non-action can be action. But you're right, I had a really hard time coming up with examples, because I think I'm the type of person and the type of business leader that is always poised to do something, not do nothing.
Speaker 2:Right, right, we're in this like problem solving mode all the time, like, oh, there's a problem, I'm go take action, I'm gonna go do something to solve it, and this is more of the let's let them burn themselves out, like. And the thing I was thinking about as I was trying to like actively think, like I said, normally stuff jumps to my mind as I'm reading things like oh yeah, here's this, that or whatever, this one, so much this is more of a slow burn, and I was thinking about parenting more than anything else, like especially thinking about, you know, like toddlers or like younger kids who are just like throwing a tantrum or, you know, doing whatever, like you sort of have to let them burn themselves out on that energy a little bit right, in a safe way, in a way that's, you know, appropriate for the age, but you sort of have to. I mean, like you said with Mel's book is like you sort of have to let them be because from there you can then do something right. It's like I can't like when we're triggered, when the emotions are high, when there are things going on, it's like you almost have to just let that fizzle back down to. You know, just a more like we get back into our rational brain and then take action. So it's almost like when you're met with that huge force that you can't fight, you can't like there's just, there's no fighting somebody else's strong, emotional, you know, whatever reaction that they're having.
Speaker 2:You almost have to like be that calm in the storm and sit and like I do that a lot with you know, like I have little kids right, so like just letting my son have his big feelings, you know, going through that and doing that in a way that's safe, but like he's just got to come back down sometimes and that's the win, because if I'm trying to fight the thing, that's unfightable, it just escalates, right, it just goes off in a different direction instead of controlling me and controlling, you know, my reaction and things like that, and it's that sort of what I thought about with this more than anything else is that's where I think I use this the most in my life and I've used that a lot in emotionally charged situations with my customers in the corporate world, right, like I think about every emotionally charged escalation I've ever been on, which were a lot of, you know, people yelling, screaming. This is what this is going to do. I need this done now.
Speaker 2:Blah, blah, blah. Like it's almost like this force. They come out with you, they come at you with of like do it now, fix it, now, make it happen. And it's like that's not how this works, like I can't do that and so I have to be the centered, calm, use, like almost somehow leveraging that that against them to to find the other path, the other win in.
Speaker 1:I wonder if some of this is leveraging the power of listening, because if you're in a charged engagement with someone, they're on attack perhaps, and maybe are anticipating and expecting you to be also, so they're preparing for their next move, expecting you to attack back. Right, I like the word you used, fizzle. It's kind of a fun word, fizzle, yeah, and the author uses it and says sometimes in life.
Speaker 1:You have to have patience and wait for temporary obstacles to fizzle out. And wait for temporary obstacles to fizzle out. Let two jousting egos sort themselves out, instead of jumping immediately into the fray. Sometimes a problem needs less of you, fewer people, period, and not more.
Speaker 1:And when you were describing the situation with your family, I can recall just this week my dad was upset about something. I don't even remember what it was, because to me it wasn't important. To him it was important, but it to me it wasn't, and he was just ranting. And it treats me sometimes like I'm five, not 55, and I just let him talk, let him kind of yell at me or yell towards me, I suppose, and I didn't say anything. And finally, when he was kind of yell at me or yell towards me, I suppose, and I didn't say anything, and finally, when he was kind of done it was, he was stunned a little bit. He was like, well, aren't you gonna say something? And I was like, well, I heard you, yeah, and I didn't say anything else after that and he got kind of got a little bit more upset.
Speaker 1:But you know, you push for what you want from someone or from something or from some opportunity or to get around that obstacle, and it isn't always going to go your way. I like the part where, in this part of the chapter, that the author talks about this from a business perspective, that we push and push to get a new raise, to get a new client, to prevent something from happening. But in fact the best way to get what we want might be to re-examine those desires in the first place, or it might be to aim for something else entirely different and use the impediment as an opportunity to explore a new direction. And so that got me to thinking about some colleagues former colleagues that I've been talking with lately, where they're in a situation where they might be in a role that either is changing or they anticipate it's changing, and they're starting to think about what those changes might be like yeah, yeah, I think that, um, it's, uh, as you're saying that, I'm thinking exactly that thing.
Speaker 2:like, right, you're anticipating all of these big reorganizations, adjustments, things that could be happening and you can't control these giant moving pieces, right, need you need them to sort of take their time and figure it out, and then you step in right In this very like calm and rational way.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I was telling this in the last episode or an episode previously that there's a friend of mine who his job is being impacted, and so the obstacle, if you will, is that his job is being impacted. And so he's a super rational person, not an emotional person. And he was telling me well, here's the reality is, I'm going to use this obstacle against itself, literally like this chapter is. And he said the issue is there's an obstacle, my job is being impacted, but the opportunity in that is I was able to step back from that and look at the issue and decide do I want to continue in the same path, in the same career, in the same industry?
Speaker 1:Even and I think I was telling a story about a totally separate colleague of mine a couple of weeks ago that was faced with a similar situation and that other colleague decided I'm going to try to do something completely out of the ordinary, like maybe even buy a franchise, instead of going and looking for a full-time corporate career. And the thing I know that I've known for 30 years of my normal life that maybe I try something completely different. And here's the thing Both of those individuals would not have tried the different thing, just naturally because they were comfortable. So maybe using obstacles against themselves is because if you're comfortable, you have to become uncomfortable in order to either do nothing and step back and look at it like this chapter is suggesting or, where you can at least, with clarity, have slowed down enough to see is it possible that there's something different or better? That was right outside my blind spot.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, and I think it's that.
Speaker 2:It's that taking the step back.
Speaker 2:And I think this is especially useful when the obstacle feels huge, right, when it feels like I'm powerless, I don't know what I can do about it, right, like he has this quote in there here that says remember, a castle can be an intimidating, impenetrable fortress, or it can be turned into a prison when surrounded.
Speaker 2:And so I think that it, like, this is the chapter for I'm facing something that feels out of reach for me to take action against, like I can chip away at it, but it's going to do nothing. And so, instead of thinking about how do I use that against the obstacle, right, like, if the power is too big against me, how do I find the way to leverage its own power to burn itself out, to fizzle itself out to, you know, to wait, play the wait game almost. And he says inaction. You know, is action really right? It's a choice, it's not like, oh, I'm going to, you know, bury my head in the sand and pretend like nothing's happening. I'm making a very conscious decision to wait this one out or to do a little leveraged push here that makes the obstacle itself sort of collapse in itself a bit yeah, I think it's a.
Speaker 1:It's because it needs to be a sustainable strategy. Right, You're trying to change something that may be long, long term or far into the future or something like that. And so when you think about needing to have a strategy, the author says you also need to have humility, which I thought was an interesting way for him to sort of round out this chapter. And he says that when you take a humble approach to how you use the obstacle against itself, as opposed to maybe like a more cavalier approach per se, he says it means that you accept that the way you originally wanted to do things just isn't possible. You maybe you just haven't got it in you to do it the traditional way. But then he says but so what?
Speaker 2:because maybe that traditional way isn't the way exactly maybe the way is the other path, and this obstacle is the thing that's helping you find that other path right. Like your, your colleagues that you were talking about, and and yeah, and I think about this, and like I'm not one who, like ever, studied politics or, you know, really understands all the nuance of it, all that great, but like this feels like where you would have to employ that type of strategy. Like I've lost the race when I wanted to win and so now I've got to play the long game of the next two years, four years, whatever the timeframe is to the next election is of like how am I going to move? This person clearly has more support behind them than I did, so how do I move this? And it's not like taking no action, but it's not that like I'm going to go attack this person for four years and, you know, drive them down and do whatever. It's no, I'm gonna, I'm going to leverage whatever they're doing.
Speaker 2:That I'm the opposite of like, like there's almost like that's like a counterbalance to stuff a bit and like it feels like this is this would be one of those places where I don't know, like if I were in that realm of career or whatever that I would really think about of how do I, how do I use the strength of the obstacle or of my opponent like against them to then, you know, make it part of my path, and then again and like and I think that this is where the humility comes in of like you have to admit defeat of the path you were on right, like you have to be humble enough.
Speaker 2:And I think that you know so often, like in a political sphere or something, you just don't find humility a lot and that's it. But if we could be humble and say, yeah, this is what happened, right, I did lose in this space, and so now, how do I come out of this in a different, in a humble way that takes action differently, right? So it kind of makes me think of that, especially just like in political climates of the world today. Like I wonder what would happen if someone were to take this kind of an approach, like I would like to see that play out. I think that would be really interesting.
Speaker 1:I think you should go be a political consultant, because so many of them could get value from what you just shared.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure. I love that. You said it was about the long game and that actually segues great into the next chapter, which is about channeling your energy. Because if it indeed is a long game and not a short game and you don't want to fizzle out, then channeling your energy is going to be the right approach. And so this chapter starts with another marcus aurelius quote. This must be his favorite, his favorite old-timey person.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like he is the stoic of the stoics, like he is the guy. I think that's why he gets quoted the most it's's quoted the most.
Speaker 1:And so he says when you're jarred unavoidably by circumstances, revert it once to yourself and don't lose the rhythm more than you can help. You'll have a better grasp of harmony if you keep going back to it. So this chapter about channeling your energy, it's a chapter that actually talks a lot about some athletic stories. Chapter about channeling your energy, it's a chapter that actually talks a lot about some athletic stories, and so I think that, if we bring it into today's stories, we just saw recently NCAA basketball championship. I know you're a basketball fan, Sam, and so the Gators just won the basketball championship for college basketball. And I'll tell you what the last game of the series where they were playing their opponent in Texas and the opponent was a Texas team in Texas, it just seemed like everything was going to be against the Gators. Now, of course, I'm biased. I am a Gator and so I wanted my boys to win.
Speaker 1:But what happened was, throughout the whole beginning of this last game, they weren't channeling their energy at all. They were all over the place. They were running frantically and they're missing shots. Every free throw was missed and they were losing passes and the rebounds were terrible. Like it was horrible and from the get-go it seemed like they were going to not prevail. In fact, they were only in the lead three times in the game and it wasn't until the last part of the game when they won the entire national championship.
Speaker 1:But what happened was it seemed like after the second half began, they were channeling their energy because even the newscasters were talking about how all right, maybe they did their job they tired out the other team because they were running all over the place. They seemed kind of frantic. It didn't seem like it was a strategy, but maybe it was a strategy. But once they seemed to become united, everything turned around. They then came up from like a 12 point underdog. Then they became like even then they were up and then they were down, and then they were up and then and in the end they ended up winning. But so this was all about the fact of watching them not succumb to the frustration or feeling like we're just not getting into our groove. They played the long game and prevailed, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I, and I think that that's so true.
Speaker 2:Right, it's that. It's that second half comeback of like I've channeled my energy, I'm not going to let the frustration right, he says, instead of giving into frustration, we can put it to good use. It can power our actions which, unlike our disposition, become stronger and better when loose and bold. And as you're telling that story, I was thinking about my sophomore year of high school. I moved from a very big high school in Texas to a very small school overseas and in the small school we didn't have as many like like. I went from Texas where, like there's a coach everywhere, you go right, like there's plenty of athletic coaches for every sport almost all the time to this environment where it's like this random person who has no experience but was willing to help will now be the coach like. It became that kind of situation my.
Speaker 2:So I walked in to the school and the saw and as a sophomore, and the basketball the varsity basketball coach was a track guy. He had never like, he wasn't a basketball person at all, so he didn't know anything about like really making a good basketball team specifically, but he did know that how to run and he did know how to get you into really good shape. And he said that to us. He was like listen, basketball is not my absolute forte. Like I'm good, I'm here, I'm gonna do my best. I know enough will be good, he's like. But I do know that there's four quarters in this game and we're going to be the fourth quarter game. The team we're gonna be the team that in the fourth quarter, is still playing just as strong as we were in the first quarter and we're just gonna outlast everybody. And that's going to be our strategy, and one. I have never been in better shape than at the end of that basketball season in my life.
Speaker 2:And he's right, we did. I mean, we ran and ran and ran and ran, and we were just in better shape than every other team. And so, while they were waning at towards the end of the game, we're still playing the same. You know, across the whole the whole team're still playing the same. You know, across the whole the whole team and I think that that's what it is it was channeling and, you know, almost strengthening that energy to make it last the whole time, right, like we honed our bodies to be able to, you know, to really do that when the other team then is super frustrated, at the end they're making all these mistakes because we're still, you know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think that it's that, if that thought process of this is the long game, and how do we channel all of the energy and he talks a lot about, like in the in the face of frustration, right, like there's something that's dragging me down, there's some huge thing in my way that makes this unfair, that makes this, you know, this situation where, like, I can't believe this is the situation I'm in, and so I hone in on my craft, I hone in on what I can control. So, like to me, like, while the this, the last chapter we're just talking about, is about when I'm facing those big obstacles that feel unmovable. This is the chapter, for I'm facing the obstacles that feel incredibly unfair and I'm super frustrated, and so now I've got to think about channeling my energy into the things that work, into the things that are going to get us into the fourth quarter and get us to play the long game, to get us to make the comeback against the home team.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting the way you're describing it, because and you were mentioning about politics earlier so there's a lot of armchair politicians and newscasters on social media, right, and so this chapter is really talking about something super important, whether you're talking about politics or sports, or your job or even your relationships. But I think it really lends itself more to the first three, which is the author says you can act out or you can act, and there's one thing that's more reactive and there's one thing that is more responsive, and so the idea of acting versus acting out basically changes something from a negative to a positive, doesn't it? When you channel your energy into the right direction, a positive energy is going to bring around traction and action towards something different or better, because maybe the thing you're acting out on is the obstacle. If I go back to that game I was talking about, there was one part in the game.
Speaker 1:There was a play where there should have been a foul called on the player, and he knew it. He knew there should have been a foul called where he would have gotten a chance for some free throws, and so he didn't get called for it, and so he took the ball and he slammed it into the court. So of course then he gets fouled. He got fouled because he thought he should have received a foul and so it turned against, against himself. This is where he didn't channel his energy right. He didn't use the obstacle against itself and at that moment when that happened in the game, the other team, when they shot their free throws, they got the points and they took the lead. So it worked in the reverse because he acted out instead of acting, just letting it go.
Speaker 1:Sometimes a ref is going to call a bad play. Sometimes the other aisle of whoever you're against is going to make a bad decision that doesn't play towards your belief systems or values. Sometimes at work, your boss or your coworkers or another team or a customer or a competitor will do something that feels derailing to you. But you can either act out or you can act and follow the focus that the obstacle there could be the way towards something better Right. That's the whole point of this book, absolutely yeah, and I.
Speaker 2:I think you're spot on with that, right, and I it's funny I wrote down the same thing when you you called it the armchair politicians. I wrote, I highlighted the exact same quote and wrote like this is the internet in a nutshell. This is the comment section on everything, right, the people who are just responding and doing whatever they want to do, right, instead of, like, taking a second, and I think your sports is such a good metaphor for this. You know you're spot on with people reacting when things don't go their way, and you know all that sort of good stuff. And it's funny, my father-in-law just came to visit you know, just to come up and see us on Sunday, and um, he was talking to my son about, uh, you know, you've got to make sure that, like you can get back in the game, like when things happen or whatever. I don't even know how they got on that subject, but he was doing, you know, going on and on about that and um, but this is actually something my son does really well, like he stays super consistent through the whole game, like he'll have big feelings and that kind of stuff, but like when it comes back to, like getting back out there and doing it, like he'll do it. He'll have the you know explosive 10 year old moment of like, but then settles back in and like, does the thing he needs to do and right, and gets back into it. And I think that that's such an important skill that we we learn as we take that feeling and instead of exploding outward, we almost explode inward and harness all of that energy to become something different. And I wrote, you know, at the end, like he says at the end of this, like you know, we're immune, like if we're doing this right, like we're immune to the external stressors and limitations. That marches towards our goal, because we really are right, to the external stressors and limitations. That marches towards our goal, because we really are right, we act like it, but because we really are if we're honing our energy inward to really make something happen.
Speaker 2:It reminds me of my dad, was a teacher and a coach.
Speaker 2:You know he still is and was my whole life. And um, I remember him telling me one time like my dad's not a yeller, he never has been, like it's very rare like that he would actually like raise his voice and yell, um and hi, he and I were talking about that once and he said that you know, what's much scarier for someone is if you lower your voice and you talk really quietly at them, right, like they explode, they go, whatever. But you harness all of that and instead of like yelling back and exploding back, you're like yeah, like come here, let me talk to you, and it is like intimidating as I'll get out, and it's that kind of energy that I think this whole chapter is about is like you pull all that explosion, all that big energy, feelings, whatever, and you pull it inside yourself and then you come out controlled with it. And that is, I mean, that's the kind of thing where you're looking at a person going, oh my gosh, like who is this? Like what is happening here?
Speaker 1:It's funny that you're saying that, because the chapter says this drives your opponents and competitors nuts. It literally that's the sentence it drives your competitors, your opponents, nuts. And so what I marked as sort of my closing thoughts on this chapter was, the author says to be physically and mentally loose takes no talent. That's just recklessness. We want right action, not action period. So I guess, to close out, what we've talked about today is this is about strategic thinking, it's about intentional actions, it's about looking at the obstacle for what it is, controlling what you can control and letting the rest go to the side.
Speaker 1:And we have two more chapters to go, which will be one episode, which will be next week, to round out this section of the book. So this section of the book, remember, is all about action. So next week we're going to be talking about seizing the offensive and preparing for none of it to actually work. So great, so inspiring, yeah, so we're going to kind of end on maybe a down note for the middle part of the book, but let's see when we get there. So, sam, what else do we need to leave our listeners with for today?
Speaker 2:I think, as you're going through the week, think about action a little bit differently, right? Think about taking that extra second to pause and think and figure out maybe how to approach this in a bit of a different way. That's not the obvious action. That sounds good.
Speaker 1:Well, friends, if you're listening and you're new to our show, we would love for you to grab a copy of the book. We will make sure that we can get you links to these books. This is a book called the Obstacle Is the Way. Also, if you're new to the show, we'd really love for you to subscribe, because these episodes come out every Wednesday.
Speaker 1:If you are not new to the show, or even if you are, one thing that has become something that is a perceived potential obstacle for us is we have an opportunity as well, which is another show that runs in the same week on a different day, and so if you find yourself thinking, well, gosh, that's not Sam and Denise on this show, that I just got the second link for this week, it's because we have another amazing show that's hosted by our producer. So Zach Elliott is the producer of what's on your Bookshelf and he hosts a separate exclusive edition series. So just wanted to give you a heads up that, if you're listening and you're thrown off a little bit, we do have two shows a week. One is this show on the Obstacle is the Way, and the other show right now is going through a book called Extreme Ownership, sam. Anything else we should share about that to make it easier for listeners.
Speaker 2:Oh, you should definitely check it out, especially if you have any touch to the military at all, like your parents, grandparents, you yourself, like any kind of you know, relationship to the military whatsoever. It is definitely a good series to check out. I'm loving it. I, you know, I grew up. I went to high school on an army base. I, my grandfather, was in the military. You know, I grew up, I went to high school on an army base. I, my grandfather, was in the military. I, you know, I definitely am loving the relationships and the discussion that you guys are having between you know, the military mindsets and lessons learned and that sort of thing and leadership itself that you can pull over into the corporate world. So definitely check it out, if you haven't, because it is really great. And if you just keep listening, like if you binge these out, you'll hear in between all of our episodes, the episodes of Denise and Zach and they are definitely worth a listen. So check it out.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Yeah, both books actually dovetail nicely together, so we look forward to your feedback. We'll have ways for you to also reach us through our social media channels and our websites. Make sure you check out Sam's website, leadthegameorg O-R-G. Leadthegameorg, and we'll look forward to seeing you or being with you next week. My name's Denise Russo and, on behalf of my friend, sam Powell, thanks for joining us on another episode of what's On your Bookshelf.