What's on Your Bookshelf?
“What’s On Your Bookshelf” is a personal and professional growth podcast exploring the intersections of passion, potential, and purpose - featuring multi-certified coach and leadership development consultant Denise R. Russo alongside Sam Powell, Zach Elliott, Tom Schweizer, Dennis LaRue, and Michelle King.
What's on Your Bookshelf?
130 UnF Yourself: Embracing Life's Uncertainties
We explore embracing uncertainty as the pathway to growth and transformation in our lives, examining how our natural addiction to prediction often keeps us stuck in the past rather than moving forward.
• Uncertainty is where new happens, but humans are wired to avoid it as a survival mechanism
• What you want in life exists outside your comfort zone - if it were inside, you'd already have it
• The most successful people doubted themselves daily but acted despite their fears
• Theodore Roosevelt: "In any moment of decision, the best thing is the right thing, the next best is the wrong thing, the worst is nothing"
• Life is an adventure filled with opportunities that require embracing uncertainty
• When you move into uncertainty, you'll face judgment from others - often a sign you're on the right path
• Certainty is an illusion - nothing in life is truly certain despite our efforts to control outcomes
• You might be comfortable somewhere uncomfortable without realizing better options exist
• Your thoughts create your reality - changing "what if?" questions to "what if!" statements transforms your outlook
This week, challenge yourself to do one small thing that feels uncertain, and notice how it breaks you out of stagnation. Reach out to us if you need help navigating your uncertain path forward - we're here to support your journey.
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Welcome to what's on your Bookshelf, a life and leadership podcast where we live out loud the pages of the books that are on our shelves, with your host, denise Russo, and Sam Powell.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone, welcome back. It's another episode of what's on your Bookshelf. This is our life and leadership podcast, where we're living out loud the pages of the books that are on our bookshelves. My name is Denise Russo, I'm here today with my friend and co-host, sam Powell, and we are in the middle of a book called Un-F-Yourself Getting Out of your Head and Into your Life, by Gary John Bishop. I'm not sure what we're going to really be talking about today. It feels a little uncertain. But, sam, how are you?
Speaker 1:doing. I'm good, I'm good. I took this book on vacation with me. We went to an out-of-state baseball tournament and then did a couple of days on the beach. So I was reading this in the car and Austin kept shooting me like little funny looks because of the title, on the beach. So I was reading this in the car and Austin kept shooting me like little funny looks because of the title of the book and he's like what are you reading? So yeah, he still thinks his book title is hilarious and likes to tease me about it every time he sees me with it. But I was reading it as we were driving so he had a good time.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that. So Vincent saw the book and right away he wants to read it. Granted, he's a little bit older than Austin and Vincent's been watching this podcast called Diary of a CEO and it's a decent podcast. I mean, for me it's a little bit boring, but Vincent loves it. And so he said to me the other day he's like I want you to listen to this episode, but I have to tell you there's going to be some swear words and they talk about SE blank. And I was just like, okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, vincent, that's cute. Even though he's a full grown adult at this point, he's 20.
Speaker 2:He's going to be 21 this year, but God love him. So, we're talking about today, embracing uncertainty, which is a really interesting take on this book, because the book is really about you kind of having more certainty. It feels like like getting into your thoughts and getting better clarity in your life. But this is sort of switching on us and talking about how really it's about not getting stuck in your thoughts and embracing things that you don't know about or you can't control.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and each one of these chapters gives us like a mantra, right, like the sentence that should go through your head, and this is I embrace the uncertainty. And he starts this out with a quote that says uncertainty is where new happens. And I think you're right. This is really he gets into, like he starts it out with like we're addicts for prediction, right, we want to know what happens next. We want, like we're wired for it.
Speaker 1:Essentially, right, it's a safety mechanism back from our, you know, ancestral days of you know there were threats around there's lions who are going to eat you, there's, you know, food to be found, all that kind of stuff. And so we want and we crave predictability, which I, you know, I think, like we covered that a lot through different books. Like you, it was part of Atomic Habits. That's part of you know, like even Sulphur Happy was, you know, really all about, like your expectations and things like this. So this is really about like, if you're getting out of your head and into your life, you have to embrace that uncertainty is a part of it, and so I'm going to get comfortable being uncomfortable kind of.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like an adventure, maybe. And it makes me think about one of my favorite books that we haven't done yet the Alchemist. I've talked about it a little bit. This book is written by Paulo Coelho, from South America. It's one of my very, very favorite leadership books. That's not a leadership book, it's a fiction book, it's a story, but it's about this concept that you can plan for everything and the things you plan for may not come to pass.
Speaker 2:And the other day my mom has been in the hospital and it was a different hospital than the one I was familiar with and I was visiting with her and I was on the way home and there was an accident right at the entranceway of the on-ramp to the highway. So we had to get rerouted. But the accident had just happened, so there were no detours. The police weren't rerouting the traffic yet and I was trying to figure out well, how in the world am I going to get home, Like that's the only way I know to get home. So I started following the people in front of me. It was clear they didn't know where they were going either. It was extremely uncertain and the GPS kept trying to turn me around to get onto the highway, of which I couldn't get onto. So I called up my kids. They were at home, they weren't with me, and so they said well, do you want us to track you and we might be able to see you on the map and tell you where to turn? And this happened to me years ago as well.
Speaker 2:So I was on this work trip in San Francisco and I was with two people. You know, I was with Michelle and Ava. Well, I wasn't with Michelle, I was with Ava. But Michelle lived in San Francisco and Ava and I were walking. I don't know where we were. We were in the middle of nowhere and we were on this long hike. She was wearing flip-flops and we should not have been walking wherever we were, and so we had to call her Michelle, and she literally went on some sort of device and was tracking to tell us okay, you're going to see a red light coming up in about 500 yards and turn right there. And it took us I don't know it felt like 10 hours to get back to some sort of civilization. But it ended up being kind of fun in a twisted way, because we were super tired and had lots of blisters at the end.
Speaker 2:But between that trip with Ava, we actually started then tagging all of our posts after that called Always an Adventure, Because inevitably something would be uncertain but it would be fun and we would make light of the uncertainty. And the book actually talks about how, when you embrace uncertainty, you really do have the ability to transform some area in your life, whether it's personal or professional. And when you don't get stuck just in what you think you can control, Sometimes the things that are outside of the controls are so much bigger and so much better. And so, anyway, back to the story about where I got lost the other night.
Speaker 2:It ended up just being a really great conversation with Vincent, because he stayed on the phone with me till I could find the highway, but it wasn't about turn left, turn right, he was just talking about that podcast that I was mentioning to you, and so he was sort of watching it while I was trying to find the highway.
Speaker 2:So I don't really think he was really, you know, trying to help me, but he's just there like a comfort zone. So if you have maybe something around you that that makes you comfortable or less uncomfortable, maybe that's a way for you to navigate something uncertain like changing your job or I don't know. I have a couple of thoughts, just even about that, where I have a few friends that have said to me and I think even to you perhaps that when we left our job two and a half years ago that they were jealous of it, and they were because they were still in their job. And I thought isn't that a funny way to think about it? Because I'm facing a lot of uncertainty where they still were getting paid on Friday and yet there was something mystical about the idea of going into something different that wasn't keeping them stuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think I always, I always say that, like, everything you want in life is just outside of your comfort zone, and I think that's really what he's getting to here. Is that, you know he said I love this part. He says, when you stick with what you're comfortable with doing, the same things you've always done you're, in effect, living in the past, not moving forward. And you know he talks like everything leading up for that was basically like we're wired to. You know, avoid risk. You know those are survival instincts from the past, but they keep us from living now because we don't have, you know, most of us don't have those types of, like food insecurities and things like that.
Speaker 1:Now these people are probably listening to this podcast, don't right? And so it's a lot of what served us and how we're wired just doesn't serve us, and so we think that and we kind of are tricked into thinking that comfortable means that's what's good, when in reality, like, all of those things that you don't have are outside of what you're doing right now. Right, like, if you, if they were inside of it, you'd already have them. But if you want something that you don't have, it's because you got to push outside of you know the certainty, the comfort zone that you've got.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love this part of the chapter because the part you're talking about. He goes into saying that how can you go to new places if you never leave your house? And I was just this week talking with somebody who I worked with many, many years ago in the entertainment side of the or event side of the business, and it was a conversation because there's a possible intriguing, interesting thing that I want to try. I don't know if I'll get an opportunity to do it or not yet, it's kind of uncertain. No pun intended, I guess, but it got me to thinking about my career past and I, not long ago, was on a podcast where I was trying to describe to someone how you can live almost like two different lives at the same time.
Speaker 2:Like, you know me because we're friends, but a lot of people in business, like if you look at me on LinkedIn, you might only know me as Denise a coach, denise a leadership person, denise a corporate person, but maybe not Denise a person that has produced festivals and concerts and events and worked for some really cool brands and properties.
Speaker 2:Not unlike, if somebody looks at you and if they know you only from just the last year or two, they might only know you as Sam the owner of Lead the Game, or Sam an executive coach, and not all the other things that make up the quilt of who you are. And so when this part was talking about stepping outside of your house, it's really about what are the things? If you're someone maybe listening and you really don't like where you are, but what are the things that you like, what you do? And maybe you go do those things somewhere else where you could like the place that you are. Or maybe you like where you are but you don't like the things that you're doing, but you like where you are because you like the people and that's great too.
Speaker 1:But eventually those things if you don't have those achy guy legs balanced, you get burned out yeah, yeah, and I I mean I think you're totally right, because I hear that all the time from people. I was actually just talking to somebody this week and I had I posted something on LinkedIn and like it was one of those things like I've been trying to be really regimented with my posting, like certain things on certain days and like just seeing how that goes right. I'm playing around experimenting. And one of the posts I did it was like it actually went out while I was on vacation, like I had done it scheduled, it, hadn't thought about it, didn't really look at LinkedIn because I was on vacation, and this post like got a bunch of comments, got a bunch of likes, like one of those things. And I was like, oh no, like I have things I need to catch up on.
Speaker 1:But it had a couple people reach out to me and they're like, oh my gosh, I felt the same way as you and I was like, oh, okay, and so it like she thinks it's time to leave her job, right, like she's like it just feels like it's time to go, but there's, you know, real hurdles in her way to like make those things happen. But she said, you know it's so hard to let go of the current right, current situation that you're in she's like. But then the question I turned around and asked myself is like what's the cost of, you know, not doing it right, of letting myself stay, of doing those things? And I think it's, I think that's really what you're, I think that goes along with what you're saying, like, maybe you like certain things, maybe it's hard to let go because it's like this feels safe, this feels secure. I like these certain things I'm doing, but taking that step, taking that uncertain movement, can get you somewhere. That, maybe, is an environment you blossom in, the environment we sit in is so important and I think that we forget that often because we just are so adaptable.
Speaker 1:Right, we talked about this with all of the year of happiness. Right, the you know you would get a TV and then you get a bigger TV and you just adapt to it. It's that hedonic adaptation of like it's all fine now, right, like this is now what I'm used to and so it doesn't feel as exciting. And it's the I think the same on the opposite, right, like you just get used to the situation you're in and you don't realize how much it's draining you or how much. It's keeping you stuck in a place that isn't where you want to be right. And I said this to my friend as we talked. I think I said it five or six times.
Speaker 1:I was like I think when we feel the way you're feeling, we owe it to ourselves to really try right, to really think down the path. It doesn't mean you have to quit your job and make crazy moves and do all those kinds of things. It just means that you have to take your feelings seriously and think about okay, if I were to make this change, what's the next thing? I would have to figure out right, those big hurdles I know are in my way. How would I? How would I get around those? And I think so much. Sometimes we just get so stuck because it's like, well, that feels uncertain. It's like, well, then go make it certain right. Like go take the action that gets you in the game.
Speaker 2:I love that you're sharing all this, because I think that a key point for me in listening to the story with your friend and thinking about our stories is we, we. These are not magic books, and so even if you try something, you shouldn't just assume that. Oh well, you know, denise and Sam have it all together and everything they've tried has worked.
Speaker 1:I feel like most of what I'm trying to not work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was kind of thinking, as you were telling the story just now, that I don't know I was really impacted by. The obstacle is the way in the story of the guy in the beginning of the book. And I'm wondering if, when the guy grabbed the stick to put under the rock to move it, and if you don't know what we're talking about, please, friends, go get that book and listen to that series. But I wonder if, when he did that, sam, if it was not the very first stick he grabbed, like how many sticks did he put under the rock that broke first? Or how many things did he try before he went into the woods to grab the stick to move the rock? Because sometimes the thing you're trying to do isn't the thing.
Speaker 2:And it makes me think about several years ago I was in a role and I loved what I was doing and I adored the people that I was working with, but there was just something out of balance. There was just something that was making me go home at night and just cry and be unhappy. Despite loving the people and loving the purpose and loving the activities and all that. There's just something was missing and a mentor of mine who I ended up talking to her last week. She was helping me remember about how I felt when I first took that job, because I loved the job I had before that one too, and I loved the people I worked with in that one too. But something pushed me to try the new thing and it ended up being like so much good in it that sometimes when you have an obstacle at work or maybe you just don't like it anymore, you forget what it was like when you did like it. And really a long time ago, years ago, I was responsible for onboarding mostly college students into their role working for an airline a brand new airline, or not a brand new airline, but a brand new office for a pretty aggressively creative airline and in the onboarding I remember having something with them where I would take pictures of them at the last day, where they were all excited still and saying try to capture this thought and memory and feeling that you have right now, because you're excited right now. You're starting a new job, you're at the end of your college career, maybe You're about to take some exciting journeys on airplanes to places. Maybe you've never been before some exciting journeys on airplanes to places. Maybe you've never been before and be excited about that, because one day something's going to happen and you're going to forget how you feel today. And I recall having someone years later that we remained friends say to me I still look at the picture because I sometimes need to remind myself that when you're in the middle of a valley, that the valley also has a high to it. You get out of the valley and you get back to somewhere else.
Speaker 2:But if you stay stuck, it's like Theodore Roosevelt says in the book in any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, but the worst thing is to do nothing. And that's sort of the idea. Right Like you could stay stuck. You and I both had learned from a leadership development instructor through some of the programs we've been in, and one of the things he said is that stuck stinks. Why would you want to stay stuck? And yet people do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, and it's what he's talking about in this chapter. It's because outside of stuck is uncertain and we just have this huge aversion and we, you know, and we get into like all that comparison of other people, we see, you know other people's flashy successes on things, and I, like he goes right after the Theodore Roosevelt quote, which I also like highlighted. I even think like I typed it up and posted it because I was like I love this, like yes, because yes, like this is the thing I tell clients all the time. Like you can't do nothing, like if you have this dream and you have this vision, like you just again, like you just owe it to yourself to give it, like the old college, try, like go see if you can make it happen, go figure out what's in your way. But then he goes in and he says here that, like you know, if you look at any of like the most successful people, he's like most of them doubted it every single day, sometimes hundreds of times per day. That's right, they sat there, just like you are right now, wondering how they would make it, whether it was all worthwhile or whether they had what it takes. And I think that, like I had. I have this calendar on my desk that I love and the quote the other day was feel the fear and do it anyway.
Speaker 1:No-transcript. To embrace uncertainty, to get what you really want out of life, you have to be afraid, feel the imposter syndrome, feel the doubt of can I do this, can I make it is better than doing nothing. Right, because you've learned nothing, you've grown in no way. You, you know, you're just staying stagnant, and I love that. He, like he said he it's about like living in the past. Right, if you're not pushing yourself into a little bit of uncertainty, you're, you're living in yesterday, not tomorrow.
Speaker 2:This part of the chapter is actually called paradigm of potential, and it is exactly what you're describing. And how many people say things like well, I'll do this thing once I buy a house, I'll do this one thing once I get this car situated. Or I'll do this thing once I fix my dishwasher, I'll do this thing once I have kids, I'll do this thing once I get promoted. But what are you really waiting for? Or why aren't you willing to try something? Like when you and I first left our jobs, it was only a matter of I don't want to even say weeks. It was probably days when we said let's just do something and let's just try it. Maybe nobody will want to do the thing that we want to try to do. And the thing we tried to do was audacious, it was big, it was bold and ended up being great. It didn't turn out to be what we dreamed it would look like exactly, but didn't it turn out to be pretty great, not just for the participants, but for us too?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think it was great. And again, like, even the things quote unquote went wrong, right, or didn't go the way we thought they would like. We learned from them. You know everybody else learned from them. It was just sort of this like adventure, like you had said at the very beginning, right, like sort of what it was. And then you know, I think that that's what we forget so much is like and I think that's where the obstacles, the way was so powerful was like just get, just get moving down the path. Like if I could just push people into their life, I would be so much happier. Right, like, just take a step forward, just do it. Like. It drives me crazy when people are like oh, I wish I could do this, I wish I could do that. And it's like then just go do it, just go do it.
Speaker 1:And John Maxwell has this quote that's like and I'll get it a little wrong, but he's like. So many people sit on an island called someday I'll like, right, someday I will do whatever, someday I will do this. Right, once this thing happens, then I will do this. And we just sit forever on this island thinking like, once all the pieces are in place, then I'll go get what I want, then you know we'll make it happen. And you know this next section of this chapter. He says you know, certainty is a complete illusion. Right, it's chasing what doesn't exist, like certainty does not exist in any way, and so we're chasing something that isn't even real most of the time. Right, we're staying stagnant, we're not going after the things we want, we're not embracing uncertainty, all in this illusion that things are certain, right, we could get things. Just right, things could be perfect. It's never going to happen.
Speaker 2:I also like this part of the chapter just because he's talking about, kind of like, how you philosophically look at your own life and what you can't change, and then the future isn't certain but the present is a gift type, some kind of quote like that.
Speaker 2:But the point of it is is that how many people will look at the future and question, well, what if this happens? And they put a question mark after it. This is actually a book I've been trying to write for probably five years and I haven't finished it yet. But the idea about it is is what if you just changed your mind and changed your thinking from instead of saying like, well, if I don't like my job and I quit, what if I don't find another one? Or if I don't like where I live and I decide to sell my house, but I'm not really sure where I'm going to live, what if I then end up being somewhere I'm unhappy? But in changing the question mark to an exclamation mark or shifting the sentence says, what if I leave where I'm unhappy and the place I go, I'm way more happy, because it's almost like you're putting this story into your head of whether or not you're going to have the thing you want. You don't know till you get there.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and I think we have so much more of a bias for making it work than we give ourselves credit for. Right like, we're so afraid to like move, but once you get going, you're going like we're fighters. At the end of the day, right, like people are, we fight for the things that we want, we fight to survive, we fight for the next step we want. We fight to survive, we fight for the next. The world is riddled with stories like that, and so it's like if you just get yourself into motion, get yourself into action, then I feel like embracing that uncertainty becomes a little bit easier, because the obstacles become the way. Right, you just end up facing whatever it is that's coming at you.
Speaker 2:And sometimes you have to make decisions not based on what other people say, think or do right. So that's like the next part of this chapter, which is you might step forward and try something unique or different and you might be judged by others, but the only judge in the situation is really yourself, and if you have a faith, you know in whatever your faith is in. But the reality is that if you try nothing, just because somebody says, oh, that'll never work, or oh, you know that's not safe to do that, or oh well, you should do this other thing. I don't know who your mentors are, but typically you can assume that the people that you around are the people that are either going to lift you up or pull you down or keep you where you are. There's like no other laws of energy that are different. Right, you're either moving forward, you're moving backwards or you're staying still.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And when I think about everybody I've worked with who's made some bold move right, they're like this is the thing I want and like let's figure out how to go get it. There hasn't been a single person who hasn't had somebody in their life judge them for it. And sometimes it's like their parents, their siblings, their friends or whatever right, like where it's like somebody looks at you and goes that's crazy. And like I think those are like how you know you're on the right path. You need at least one person to go. Are you sure about that? And then you're like yeah, definitely, because if it makes you uncomfortable, it means I'm moving into this space of uncertainty, like the judgment is real and it is going to come and that's okay. You know, think about it. Is this person valid? Is what they're saying valid? Maybe, maybe not, but you move forward anyways.
Speaker 2:That's the point of the chapter right Embrace uncertainty. And it's I think it's in the word embrace, because that's the hard part of it is, you can kind of trudgingly go through uncertainty, but he's saying, you know, really go headfirst and embrace it. He says that just because you're rejecting and avoiding uncertainty, that's like you're afraid of it, you're trying to control things that you think you can control. And in life really is that possible? Because I think we've often said this in business, that the one thing that is certain in any business is change. And yet people are afraid of change, afraid of transformation. People want to stay the same. I actually been working on this project and I was telling somebody just this past week that one of the things I'm noticing is that the people that I'm working with on this project that are the most tenured are the ones most resistant to change, and the people that are the least tenured are the ones that are kind of excited about change. And when you get comfortable, you might be comfortable somewhere uncomfortable. I remember teaching a leadership class years ago where you and I used to work together and I remember either seeing this story or it was a part of a lesson I was teaching where it was talking about.
Speaker 2:Imagine that there's these two people in a room and this room only has two things in it and a door. There's no windows, there's nothing else. One is, a person is laying on the floor and the other person is laying on a bed of nails and they're talking to each other about their life and about what they really want. And the one person on the floor is talking about how, wow, where I am is so much more comfortable than where you are. And the person that's on the bed of nails is like well, no, I'm actually lifted up a little bit higher than you are. I can see more in this room with no windows.
Speaker 2:And they never take a chance to look at the door to see if the door was even unlocked. And the one person finally gets up and says I wonder if we should open the door. And the other guy's like no, why would you open the door? We have everything we need here. And so the one person stays and the other person goes, the door is unlocked and goes away, and you never know, in the end of the story, what was on the other side of the door. Maybe it was worse, maybe it was better, maybe it was nothing. Maybe the person opened the door and, like the book says, you could just right now drop dead. Who knows? You don't know your expiration date, but the point is is that you could stay comfortable, being uncomfortable and not even know it, or just try something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think that that's it. And he says I love that how he talks about this is like life is an adventure. It's absolutely filled with opportunity, but it is up to you to embrace those opportunities fully and completely, in all of their majestic, unnerving and invigorating uncertainty. And I think that that's it right. Like you got to open the door, you got to embrace the fact that you're going to find a lot of doors, a lot of windows, a lot of things. Going to find a lot of doors, a lot of windows, a lot of things. And you just have to embrace that it is uncertain how you're moving forward. But that's the reality, right? Certainty doesn't actually exist. And if you want something right, if you want more, different, better I don't know anything that's not in the past for you right Then you've got to just embrace this adventure. That is an uncertain but, you know, invigorating life.
Speaker 2:I think, in closing for today, one of the interesting things for you as listeners is that you don't have to stay stuck. You can focus on what you can control, but it doesn't mean that you just stay within the limits of what you can control. But it doesn't mean that you just stay within the limits of what you can control, and the best way through all of that is engaging with a coach. We can help you reach out to us. Zach. Our producer has lots of ways in the show notes for you to reach out to us, and if we can't help you, we can maybe point you to resources or people who can.
Speaker 2:There's no reason in your life, with your signature story, that you have to stay in a chapter that isn't where you want to be. It's like maybe it's time to turn the page and I know we're going to turn the page now, today, to get ourselves to next week, which is about your thinking, and that you really aren't your thoughts but the things that you do. So I'm really interested in that chapter, sam, because we talk a lot about how it really isn't about what you do. It's about how you think, about what you do or don't do. So I'm going to be curious about the uncertainty of next week's chapter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good one, it's definitely a thought-provoking chapter. But, yeah, I hope everybody this week, right between now and the next time you hear from us, that you do something right, one thing that feels a little uncertain, just to break you out of the cycle of sitting, stagnant, sitting where you are right. Just pick one small thing, make one move forward and I bet it'll be one of the best things to do for the week. I agree with you, thanks for sharing that you for the week.
Speaker 2:I agree with you. Thanks for sharing that. Friends. If you liked this episode, we would appreciate it if you would press like wherever it is that you're watching these up, listening to the episodes, and share it with others. Maybe you have a friend or a colleague or a family member even that could benefit from what we're learning together. Get this book. It's a short read. We're only halfway through it, but we're diving deep into it. Come back next week. Where we talk about I'm not my thoughts, I am what I do. My name is Denise Russo. On behalf of my friend, sam Powell, thanks for joining us this week on another episode of what's on your Bookshelf. Thank you.